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Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

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  • Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

    In starting to do my coffee machine research Ive seen that many commonly available machines (such as what one would through harvey norman) have in built grinders but that machines people have posted about on here generally need separate stand alone grinders.
    Is it possible to get high quality small domestic machines that have in built grinders or when one goes to an in built system do you loose a lot of grinder quality?


  • #2
    Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

    Originally posted by 7D6B7A767F7F7C7C190 link=1247404720/0#0 date=1247404720
    In starting to do my coffee machine research Ive seen that many commonly available machines (such as what one would through harvey norman) have in built grinders but that machines people have posted about on here generally need separate stand alone grinders.
    Is it possible to get high quality small domestic machines that have in built grinders or when one goes to an in built system do you loose a lot of grinder quality?
    When teh cost drops ... Something has to give...


    1: Many are starting to realise that supermarket coffee (pre ground in particular is stale)

    2: Thus we bundle in a grinder...

    3: Depending on teh machine... The grinder may be of a solid construction and then again maybe not...


    The user then fills up the hopper and the supermarket beans sit there for a week... Fresh coffee I think NOT... As well as teh HEAT that the machine gives off, that then invades the hopper :-(

    Oh... And depending on the style... The amount of grinds that sit / remain trapped in teh pathway...

    So is it better than no grinder and buying direct from teh supermarket... It has teh potential, problem is that the users do not understand thus PEBFAG...


    But it can/could be a step in teh right direction...

    Opps.. me thinks I am a cynic... : :-[ :-/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

      I think you misunderstood my question. I will still be using actual beans and not preground - I was just wondering if the cappucino machines which do the bean grinding in their mechanism can do as good a job as a stand alone grinder?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

        Originally posted by 7B6D7C7079797A7A1F0 link=1247404720/2#2 date=1247406420
        I think you misunderstood my question. I will still be using actual beans and not preground - I was just wondering if the cappucino machines which do the bean grinding in their mechanism can do as good a job as a stand alone grinder?

        If you read my response again... I was referring to Beans..

        Originally posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1247404720/1#1 date=1247405845
        The user then fills up the hopper and the supermarket beans sit there for a week...
        Then

        Originally posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1247404720/1#1 date=1247405845
        teh HEAT that the machine gives off, that then invades the hopper
        The heat will cause teh beans to go stale very quickly

        And then

        Originally posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1247404720/1#1 date=1247405845
        The amount of grinds that sit / remain trapped in teh pathway...
        As per all/most grinders the grinds are not all ex pulsed from the grinder and some grinds remain... Thus depending on the path whay this can be significant...


        OH... It does not matter where you get teh beans from... It will happen to all.

        The other point is that many like to mod and play with teh grinder for many reasosn. Depending on how the unit is combined, this may not be possible and cleaning teh grinder can be a right pain.

        Trust it is now a little clearer..  




        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

          Originally posted by 7365747871717272170 link=1247404720/2#2 date=1247406420
          I think you misunderstood my question. I will still be using actual beans and not preground - I was just wondering if the cappucino machines which do the bean grinding in their mechanism can do as good a job as a stand alone grinder?
          Simple answer NO..

          A good grinder can cost any thing from 600 to 2k plus..  Most of the combo machines cost less that that;  all up..

          Note: This is a generalisation..  There will always be an exception.

          PS. Any moderators wish to move this to the Grinder section... Feel free.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

            Hi drcoffee,

            In answer to your question, it depends what you mean by really good.  The 2 best machines with built-in grinders are the Breville BES860 and the Nemox Dell Opera (as far as I know, anyway).  Both are around the $800 mark.

            Both these machines will make a very good coffee and Id consider them to be at the bottom of the really good range.

            The Breville is a pretty new machine on the market so there are not that many reports about it, in particular its long-term reliabilty. My colleague has had one for a month and had several problems and needed to have machines swapped twice. Of course he could just be really unlucky.

            I own a Quaha Napoletan II which is effectively the same as the Nemox, just sold under a different name (the company has been sold). It makes a very good coffee, better than youd get at most cafes.

            These machines have a Lux grinder which costs ~$300 to buy as a separate machine.  The cheapest recommended grinder is the Sunbeam EM0480 which cost ~$220.  

            I use the combi machine at work, I think its well suited to an office environment, not that it wouldnt be equally good in the home. Its convenient having an all-in-one machine and they take up less room.  The downsides include that if either the espresso component or the grinder component of the machine breaks, you lose both when it goes in for repairs.  Also, if you want to upgrade, you have to upgrade both. If you buy yourself a really good grinder then you may never have to upgrade again, ever.

            Have a search through the website, look at the machines available (particulary through our sponsors), consider what type of usage the machine will get and set yourself a budget.  One thing youll read time and time again is to buy the best possible grinder you can afford!

            Lastly, probably best to refer to them as espresso machines, not cappucino machines.

            EDIT NOTE: Seeing as youve posted in the $1500-3000 category, does this mean your budget is in this range?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

              Originally posted by 57565C4F51544E3D0 link=1247404720/5#5 date=1247410713
              The cheapest recommended grinder is the Sunbeam EM0480 which cost ~$220.
              Correction.
              The cheapest is the EM0450 which is about $150.
              The same grinder but with a plastic body instead of a metal one and an extra power switch setting.
              The grinding parts are identical to the 0480.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                My Rancilio LUCY has a grinder built in. Its basically a Silvia and a Rock sharing a house together. I dont know if it is "really good" but I like the drinks it makes. Just another opinion.

                Andrew.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                  Originally posted by 1E31383A2D123E313E383A323A312B5F0 link=1247404720/1#1 date=1247405845
                  Opps.. me thinks I am a cynic...
                  Very much so I think. I think you need to be more clear in your response AM. The stale ground beans in the pathway is a problem with every machine on the market. Everyone on here grinds off a few beans to throw out and the same would be true here. The heat isnt a problem as it can be dealt with easily. Only put in as many beans as you need for each coffee and there will be no problem. A lot of users on here do the same with their semi commercial grinders.

                  The general opinion around here is that the sunbeam EM0480 is the bare minimum. It just so happens that the grinder in the machines nemox/quaha machine mentioned above has the same burr set as the sunbeam. The espresso machine is widely regarded as quite capable of producing a great shot and the build quality while not up to the standard the silvia is far above that of any of the machines available at the major chain stores. You can pick up one of these machines for about 7-800 so if you only got 2 years out of the machine it wouldnt hurt too much to throw away the grinder as well when you consider that the closest competing machine would cost about the same without a grinder.

                  JB

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                    Originally posted by 704F494E535465785543565F3A0 link=1247404720/8#8 date=1247465168
                    AngerManagement wrote on Yesterday at 23:37:
                    Opps.. me thinks I am a cynic...


                    Very much so I think.  I think you need to be more clear in your response AM.  The stale ground beans in the pathway is a problem with every machine on the market.  Everyone on here grinds off a few beans to throw out and the same would be true here.  The heat isnt a problem as it can be dealt with easily.  Only put in as many beans as you need for each coffee and there will be no problem.  A lot of users on here do the same with their semi commercial grinders.
                    DrCoffee is new and from all his posts; it is clear that he is trying to find information...


                    1: Stale beans is not a problem for me and other who have Click Clack lids and or other mods to flush the grinder

                    2: Assumptions in Yellow... I do not grind off a few beans to toss out... Some may but not every one... Many home users would shudder at the thought of tossing out grinds.. A professional or a true snob would understand but a new user may/would not and then tell them that older than 45sec is stale Then try to prove it....

                    3: As to heat... Most of teh combo machines that I have seen and or been delivered to me... Including a nice Rancilio LUCY: have all arrived with hoppers almost full.. And the owners are pleased to say they are doing the right thing. I also had one tell me the the more oil she had accumulated on the inside of the hopper was a sign that she had good beans.. Sorry.. It was about 12months old and it smelt rancid.

                    Worse are the Fully Auto machines where the user advises that they have been told that the lid is enough to seal in the FRESHNESS :-X. When I ask then how long they have the machine on...

                    Answer: Its always on.. Just press a button and ya get coffee... Why else would I buy it..

                    Follow up Question and Answer about milk... Leads me to never want a milk coffee from some units.


                    Thus if your response was this is how I and or other snobs may manage stale beans/ Heat etc etc GREAT.

                    But I will remain a BIG cynic and remind all new comers to do their research / reading...

                    Feed a man fish and YOU will have to feed him for the rest of YOUR life... Teach him to fish and he will feed himself. And maybe even find a better way as well as gaining self esteem.

                    http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToEspresso.html





                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                      Originally posted by 734C4A4D5057667B5640555C390 link=1247404720/8#8 date=1247465168
                      It just so happens that the grinder in the machines nemox/quaha machine mentioned above has the same burr set as the sunbeam.
                      Are you absolutely sure? My understanding is that the sunbeam burrs are the same design. Thats different to being the same. Either way, the carrier, the way it operates, and pretty much everything else about these two different grinders is again, different. I know which Id prefer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                        Originally posted by 5C6365627F784954796F7A73160 link=1247404720/8#8 date=1247465168
                        It just so happens that the grinder in the machines nemox/quaha machine mentioned above has the same burr set as the sunbeam.
                        This is the first Ive heard of that.
                        If it were true, then you would have to say that hte Sunbeam has the same set as the Nemox/Quaha (as they were in existence first).

                        Originally posted by 7563666677757970707373160 link=1247404720/10#10 date=1247468895
                        Are you absolutely sure?  
                        Same question from me.
                        Where did you get your information from?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                          They both use the Lux burrset dont they? That is how I understood it. That aside the lux grinders are well respected on here anyway.

                          AM. I understand your opinion but also for the fact that drcoffee is a new user I dont think that your original post gave him all the info hence my reply. I think it is better he has all the information to make his own decision. Sure a full auto is rubbish and has hygeine issues but the question was that of whether or not there was a machine with a built in grinder that does a good job and I still believe the answer is yes and that lies in the machines that were mentioned.

                          JB

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                            Originally posted by 685751564B4C7D604D5B4E47220 link=1247404720/12#12 date=1247471169
                            They both use the Lux burrset dont they?
                            Do they?
                            As I said before, this is the first Ive heard of it.
                            Proof?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Can really good cappucino machines have inbuilt grinders?

                              Dont know if Im allowed to link this site but oh well.

                              http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/sunbeamgrinder.html

                              The article says the burrs are based on the lux set so not actually lux burrs.

                              Comment

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