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Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

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  • Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

    While very happy with the grind quality on my DRMs they are a little slow on speed when under the pump and if my little commercial venture is to continue then I am in the market for a new larger Grinder over the next 6 months. Also bearing in mind that the DRMs have already done commercial duty for several years before I got them and refurbed them so they will not go on forever in a commercial setting.

    Cost is to some degree unimportant but the large price differential between the Robur and the Compak makes the Compak fairly attractive to buy.

    Doserless electronic versions seems to be the way to go, but I am open to stick with dosered based on commercial opinions or reliability considerations, remembering that I am 4 hours out of Melbourne.

    Has anyone seen the new K 10 electronic in the flesh and had a drive of it?

    Also thoughts from anyone that has used more than one of the possible grinder choices above or that has an alternative to add :

    Criteria

    1 Grind quality
    2 Consistency of dose and speed (doser/doserless)
    3 Reliability
    4 Cost

    If anyone has any of the above to sell to me for $100 I will happily settle for that too

  • #2
    Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

    This is a decision Im weighing up at the moment also. Having used both the Robur and K10 (non WBC) recently, hasnt helped the decision. They both have their positives and negatives.

    In regards to your criteria, I would say both grinders meet all except for 4. The Robur is a fair bit dearer than the K10.

    The other thing would be weight. The Robur is built like a tank and wouldnt be too easy to move around. Whereas the K10 I imagine would be lighter and easier to transport.

    The other problem with the Robur; for me anyway is that it shows up how short I am. It kind of leans over and pats me on the head condescendingly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

      Given the cost of grinder you are looking at find some in the flesh and see if you can have a play, that is the only way you will find out if these things will suit what you want to do. Me I like big flat burr grinders a lot cheaper and for the drinks you are doing (milky) your customers wont be able to tell the difference in taste IMHO.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

        Originally posted by 6067636C646E7B6B6C65020 link=1268192465/0#0 date=1268192465
        large price differential between the Robur and the Compak
        ...and they are VERY different grinders.
        :

        I agree with the above, have a play with them and then spend your budget... and even then if you settle on one brand then have a good think about the doser/no doser question if speed is your goal.

        A 4 second wait from a $3K+ doserless is a long time to wait if there is a far queue.

        8-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

          Originally posted by 6D6A6E616963766661680F0 link=1268192465/0#0 date=1268192465
          Also thoughts from anyone that has used more than one of the possible grinder choices above or that has an alternative to add  
          Hi bf,

          I have had multiple K10WBC and now 2 x Robur-e,

          The K10 is brilliant value and has one of the best dosers in the business. There are a few K10 electronic prototypes in the US, but we wont see them here for about 6 months- as I am informed by the importer. For throughput, Id place the K10 between a Kony-e and a Robur (given that the doserless versions are quicker).

          If you can muster the funds for a Robur-e, its a no-brainer Id think. Factor about 4.5 sec for a double and rock solid consistency. For lower volumes, a Kony-e will do you just as well. Its terrific and I use one at home, as do a few other CSers...

          Hope that helps

          Chris



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          • #6
            Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

            Thanks for the replies so far. Definately not for home use so that part of the doserless advantage is not a consideration, and my DRMs only leave behind 2-2.5g total including the doser for home use so they do pretty well for that job.

            Originally posted by 1F303A275E0 link=1268192465/3#3 date=1268227762
            4 second wait from a $3K+ doserless is a long time to wait
            Yep agreed, dosered is winning in my mind at this stage too.

            The other thing to my way of thinking is that unlike a lot of shop situations the grinder is between you and the customer on a cart so operational noise is a factor to some degree.

            I guess I am looking for good reasons to spend the extra $1kish and get a Robur. Over the life of a grinder I know the initial $$ spent is not much considering what it will do over its life.

            Originally posted by 1F303A275E0 link=1268192465/3#3 date=1268227762
            spend your budget
            What budget I am single and a sole trader  8-)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

              Hmmm.....

              Given that Speed and a Doser are primary considerations, why not look at a Mazzer Major Automatic. These grinders are way fast and if you dont mind the shortcomings of a Mazzer Doser design, the rest of the machine is built to the same standard and specs as a Kony... 8-)

              Mal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                Originally posted by 787F7B747C766373747D1A0 link=1268192465/5#5 date=1268266348
                Thanks for the replies so far. Definately not for home use so that part of the doserless advantage is not a consideration, and my DRMs only leave behind 2-2.5g total including the doser for home use so they do pretty well for that job.

                Originally posted by 1F303A275E0 link=1268192465/3#3 date=1268227762
                4 second wait from a $3K+ doserless is a long time to wait
                Yep agreed, dosered is winning in my mind at this stage too.

                The other thing to my way of thinking is that unlike a lot of shop situations the grinder is between you and the customer on a cart so operational noise is a factor to some degree.

                I guess I am looking for good reasons to spend the extra $1kish and get a Robur. Over the life of a grinder I know the initial $$ spent is not much considering what it will do over its life.

                Originally posted by 1F303A275E0 link=1268192465/3#3 date=1268227762
                spend your budget
                What budget I am single and a sole trader  8-)
                For my money definately a Robur, but youll increase waste for sure. The doserless roburs are unable to deliver what i consider consistent doses. Weve got 3 roburs on the bench at work (1xblend and 2xS.O) all with dosers. Everything is grind on demand and were using dosing tools which weve stacked against the doserless robur and the dosing tools win on consistency. Just depends on how accurate you wanna be. The other option is BNZs or Anfim.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                  James,

                  How many KG had the Robur E done when you put it up against your dosing tools? From what I understand, the burrs need a bit of wearing in before the dosing is accurate?

                  -ACog

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                    Originally posted by 34363A32323C3B26550 link=1268192465/8#8 date=1268308355
                    James,

                    How many KG had the Robur E done when you put it up against your dosing tools? From what I understand, the burrs need a bit of wearing in before the dosing is accurate?

                    -ACog
                    doesnt matter how many kilos go through. The grinder is still inconsistent in dose. You cant rely on an electronic timed grinder to get you within +/- 0.3 grams of your target dose. Why 0.3 grams? Anecdotally, 0.3 grams is enough to change pour characteristics. Ive done a fair bit of testing of timed grinders in my time for barista comps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                      Mmmm Must come to Melbourne and play with Shiny Grinders

                      Any thoughts on the Robur Dosered version then against the Compak? Apart from weighing and costing more and a bit more speed is there an improvement in grind, flavour profile or is it just different? Any other percieved benifits that make the extra $$ worth it?

                      Bearing in mind that I have read the Titan grinder review and taking it on face value, and as Chris said above
                      Originally posted by 7C494443776B474E4E4D4D280 link=1268192465/4#4 date=1268251493
                      The K10 is brilliant value and has one of the best dosers in the business.
                      looking at medium volumes in a dosered then it is the best choice by a bit.

                      Maybe I just need to rob a bank and get one of each :

                      BTW thanks all fairly firmly in the dosered camp I reckon (at least for now)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                        Originally posted by 5C7E7863646E780B0 link=1268192465/9#9 date=1268310674
                        doesnt matter how many kilos go through. The grinder is still inconsistent in dose. You cant rely on an electronic timed grinder to get you within +/- 0.3 grams of your target dose. Why 0.3 grams? Anecdotally, 0.3 grams is enough to change pour characteristics. Ive done a fair bit of testing of timed grinders in my time for barista comps.
                        This has not been my experience with the Kony-E so far... In fact, it lands a dose each and every time that is well within the +/- 0.3g hysteresis you quoted David.

                        One thing I have noticed though, if you dont keep the interior of the dosing funnel absolutely clean, after a while enough oil collects near the exit point to hang on to some ground coffee (up to a couple of grams at times). Naturally, this can cause some inconsistency from one dose to another as this suspended coffee can then fall into the basket in addition to what has just been ground.

                        I just give the funnel a good clean out at the end of every day and the problem doesnt return. Mind you, Im not doing anything like the volumes of coffee that you guys are so this might become a bit of a chore. If some coffee is hung up inside, a couple of soft taps from the handle of the tamper quickly dislodges it all so maybe that would be a better operational mode demploi in a Cafe....

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                          Just did a quick head count round town 28 espresso machines in use plus 2 mobile trailers in a town of 3000 : number of places I would go to "buy" a coffee without food at 3 or maybe 4 :-[ .

                          Going to complete a grinder and machine survey for fun but I think the biggest grinder is a big black plastic Boema at the worst coffee place in town :P A few Mazzer Jollys and maybe a Major plus other assorted old gear. One of the pubs has a broken doser so they fill the doser up and spoon it out of the top and yes the doser and hopper are kept full from day to day :P

                          Interesting Mal, if I was buying for home then doserless electronic I reckon would be a no brainer, I currently grind by hand more often than not instead of loading up hoppers and cleaning dosers for one or maybe 2 doubles in the mornings so doserless makes a lot of sense.

                          Bottom line is whatever I choose is it will be the biggest badest grinders in town anyway 8-) Roasters week next week looks like I am coming to town

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                            Originally posted by 527F7B777A160 link=1268192465/11#11 date=1268378398
                            This has not been my experience with the Kony-E so far... In fact, it lands a dose each and every time that is well within the +/- 0.3g hysteresis you quoted David.
                            The Kony-E may be more accurate due to the slower speed of grinding. For a Robur E, the grind time is often < 4 seconds. The variation in dose is often massive. I dont know what the grind time on a Kony these days is, but the ones Ive used about 3 or 4 years ago used to think they were Mazzer Minis! My statement would only be true of grinders that deliver the required dose in a fairly quick time. My statement of dose variation only applies to these grinders (eg Robur, BNZ Conical, K10 Conic et al)

                            Mind you though, how fast the grinder spits out the required dose is not the only factor that affects the accuracy of dose delivered. Other factors such as blend, grind fineness and humidity come in to play IMO.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Robur E, Compak K10 WBC or E, Mahlkonig K 30 ES or ..... ???

                              Originally posted by 1E3C3A21262C3A490 link=1268192465/13#13 date=1268457548
                              The Kony-E may be more accurate due to the slower speed of grinding. For a Robur E, the grind time is often < 4 seconds. The variation in dose is often massive. I dont know what the grind time on a Kony these days is, but the ones Ive used about 3 or 4 years ago used to think they were Mazzer Minis! My statement would only be true of grinders that deliver the required dose in a fairly quick time. My statement of dose variation only applies to these grinders (eg Robur, BNZ Conical, K10 Conic et al)

                              Mind you though, how fast the grinder spits out the required dose is not the only factor that affects the accuracy of dose delivered. Other factors such as blend, grind fineness and humidity come in to play IMO.
                              Hi Dave,

                              I am grinding at about 6.5-7.5 sec per double depending on what I use with my Kony-e and I reckon I dose on the generous side... I assume the standard Kony runs a less aggressive burr cut. and is still slow.

                              A mini manual/mini-e double is more like 20 sec...

                              Chris

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