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  • Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

    Hi everybody!

    Im new to home espresso making; just purchased a La Pavoni lever machine and would like to find a decent grinder to match it. There are numerous posts on different blogs on the topic and so many contradictions.

    At first I was looking at $100-$200 grinders, but nobody whos serious about espresso has good things to say about those. So my research brought me to the $200-$300 bracket but it still seems like a gray zone and that is where I need help.

    Im considering the Isomac prof/gran, Lelit PL43, Pasquini Lux,  and Rancilio Rocky.

    I would love to find a second hand higher end grinder... but even those still sell for $500-$1000.

    Are any of these bad choices? Is there anything else I should consider?

    Thank you,

  • #2
    Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

    Hi Maybeau,

    Can i suggest looking at a Breville smart grinder, you will find topics within this area of the forum with alot of information and thoughts on them. The other thought i would suggest is considering going a little bit higher in price and looking at a Compak K3T and P.
    I believe there are a a few of the site sponsors with these at the moment with a more than reasonable price on them for what they are you wont be dissappointed.

    regards,

    Chris

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    • #3
      Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

      I use a smart grinder with my La Pavoni and its fine. The other ones I looked at were an Ascaso i-mini and a Iberital Challenge.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

        Originally posted by 75787F6875746D7F781A0 link=1335719032/0#0 date=1335719032
        Im considering the Isomac prof/gran, Lelit PL43, Pasquini Lux, and Rancilio Rocky.

        I would love to find a second hand higher end grinder... but even those still sell for $500-$1000.
        Welcome to CS. I can vouch for the Rocky, not stepless but that is an easy and reversable mod, does a fine job. As CC suggested the Breville is a good start or if you can strech the budget the entry Compacts are a step up again. I have owned the Rocky and currently use the SG at work. I would choose the Breville over the Rocky.

        Steve

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        • #5
          Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

          The first three on your list? pretty much essentially the same grinder, Same burrset and all.

          Good grinders, but apparently noisy and slightly messy.

          The rocky? somewhat overpriced now, given that theres the breville bcg800 and compak k3p/t on the market. (both which hit above their weight apparently)

          All will grind coffee suitable for use in an espresso machine, but well, it all comes down to features, I cant say much about the others, but Im quite happy with my k3t, it might be slightly bigger then most in its price, but thats its positive side, Powerful motor, decent sized burrs, and smooth action, Less then 2 grams retained in the system makes for a good commercial grinder for less then $500

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          • #6
            Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

            If you are not wedded to the idea of an electric machine, and dont have to produce large quantities of coffee, I suggest you consider a hand operated grinder.

            Hario and Kyocera are on the cheap end, the Pharos would come it at the top of your grey zone. There are others in between.

            A search here will give you reviews and comments about these machines.

            Greg

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            • #7
              Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

              I use the Lelit PL43 with my Lelit PL41TEMD Espresso Machine. This is my holiday / secondary accommodation setup. I think it is adequate, but would upgrade the grinder if I could justify the budget outlay. My advice would be: Spend more money if you can afford it, but you will be satisfied with the Lelit PL43 if you cant.

              Best wishes, Russell

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              • #8
                Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                Thank you very much, great insights to continue my research. I was very skeptical with the Smart, and researched it further after your posts; apparently I had been reading many early/pre-upgrade reviews... Unless I find a great deal on a used home commercial type (mazzer, macap...), Ill go with the Smart. We have amazing deals on brand new ones here (Montreal), $179.

                Did fall on the Pharos in my research and I love the idea of it and the quality of grind seems really good, but it doesnt seem very practical. Youtube videos show people banging on it to get the coffee out, and I like the coffee falling right into the portafilter...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                  To add my 2c... I own the rocky but have serious reservations about it. I am seriously considering buying the breville smart grinder but how to explain that to the missus when I have only just bought a behmor!

                  Dom

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                  • #10
                    Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                    After the infinite amount of blogs/posts about $200-$300 grinder searches... I am surprised and impressed that anybody still has the generosity to add his 2 cents... (Or that anybody has 2 cents left...)

                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                      I have serious resevations about some of the grinders you listed in your question maybeau, definitely being overpriced and punching well below their proce bracket at least in my country. Not so the rocky which is a good siolid, tried and proven performer that will out last virtually everything else mentioned directly in this thread while performing very well.

                      Anyone that has serious reservations about the rocky may not be managing it well. Some say that the distance between the steps is too large (& in my honest opinion they usually forget to add the words "...for them..."). All they need do is tweak their coffee making technquique and whalla...."problem" solved. It has been a great grinder for home use for a really long time and should not be dismissed with off hand remarks.

                      That said however, there is no doubt that for a similar price these days you can get a nicer newer "better" grinder ( "better" = according to anyones opinion of what that constitutes).

                      I wouldnt waste time on a grinder just because the price is keen ($179.00....so what?). My opinion therefore: Just buy a really good small commercial grinder for your home use and you will probably NEVER buy another grinder again (except on a whim rather than on a needs basis). There are some really great ones and they cost top dollar, and there are some realy good value for money ones that are not compromising on the grind quality, ease of use or reliability over a long period.

                      I would therefore budget to spend a little under $500.00 (in this market, dunno what that gets in your market) and you will never look back. Or....buy cheap and buy twice (or maybe even three times)....so cheap isnt cheap in the long run.

                      My 3 cents worth.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                        I guess thats where the title comes from... Confused! Rocky vs Smart... Its almost like republicans vs democrats... Very passionate debate, almost always 50/50, and everybody really wishes for something better...

                        I love a debate!

                        I really hope to find a good deal on a Mazzer or some other dream machine, and I usually am the type of customer who purchases higher end stuff that last longer, but I began my research in the wrong order, like many beginners, I fell in love with an espresso machine and started to research everything else after. Already busted the budget, so Im ok with getting a grinder that I will want to upgrade later. Still keeping an eye for a great deal. Will let you know what I end up buying.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                          Being that most people use a PAV for espresso shots? may I suggest you try to find the cheapest entry into a stepless grinder.

                          You may find having a stepped grinder doesnt give you the adjustability you may need?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                            Originally posted by 4B4641564B4A534146240 link=1335719032/11#11 date=1335925300
                            Its almost like republicans vs democrats..
                            In Australia, that would be a very quiet conversation - I think you meant the last Federal election? :P

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Good enough entry level grinders: confused!

                              Originally posted by 343F253E243B3930570 link=1335719032/12#12 date=1335926286
                              ....may I suggest you try to find the cheapest entry into a stepless grinder.

                              You may find having a stepped grinder doesnt give you the adjustability you may need?

                              3 points:
                              a) a good modern commercial (cafe) grinder with stepped adjustment doesnt need more than a tweak in technique if an operator really thinks they should be between one step and the next. The steps are usually quite small, and how many operators have a consistent technique throughout, so that the only thing left to blame is the stepped adjustment?

                              b) The better cafe grinder manufacturers have also made the steps smaller through their R & D over time. A good example....take a look at the stepped Macaps. Beautifully engineered, at least equal build quality to anyones beloved mazzer, very easily managed small steps. You can buy stepless if you want just because you read it on the internet, but I cant see any advantage over their stepped models.

                              c) this type of "discussion" originates I think from people using / buying / discussing domestic / home use / or older stepped grinders. They usually have small collars, this means the steps are larger (than commercial grinders with larger diameter collars allowing much closer steps) and discussions re stepped VS stepless should take these little *****but extremely important****points into consideration 

                              However, the discussion is then also affected by what is available in any particular price bracket. You have to look at the competing grinders, and look at their performance in toto when comparing the models to eachother. The adjusting mechanism is only one item in a total package.

                              In my opinion then, the revolving & never ending stepped VS stepless debate is flawed in the sense of it only considering THAT part of a grinder and no other part in the total package, and is one of those examples where a shaky concept or one that may nolonger apply due to improvements and changes over time has become through constant plagiarism around and around, an "internet fact" regardless.

                              Please note that the manufacturers themselves now offer more stepless models because of public demand through reading this stuff. Its not because stepless is simply better, its because the demand has been created right here in .....on the web....and after reading all this stuff that goes around and around, clients demand stepless adjustment, so you just give it to them irrespective!

                              Lastly, please note that a good stepped adjustment grinder also has some pluses that a stepless doesnt particularly for quick changes eg where a home user wants to go from say a regular to a decaff coffee and back. Or say to grind a little coffee for the plunger at work and back to the espresso position..... They are also easier & quicker to dismantle and service and put back together.....These kinds of positives are seldom made much of in these discussions because it has become kind of politically incorrect to say anything good about stepped grinders.

                              It all depends on price bracket and the particular grinder. As always, try to buy at the top end of your budget or slightly above.

                              There is always more to this than meets the eye at first 

                              Hope that helps.

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