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Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 282F2B242C263323242D4A0 link=1197961695/55#55 date=1268523051
    Er no it was not about conical vs flats more about what Moto read into it plus a bit more. Was typed after a few beers too  :

    Snobs we may be and guilty of excessive (you can never be excessive I reckon   ) upgraditis in a home situation my point was that this sort of narrow discussion may not be as helpful as it could be as many of the questions that arise in your large conical thread are going to be equally applicable to large planer grinders as they share more components than they have different ones.
    I still think you got the complete wrong end of the stick bf... :-?

    Ive done nothing different than others who own LM GS3 machines, and the odd thread dedicated very specifically to high end Lever Machines (seem to remember you taking a prominent role in discussions about these and yes, some of what applies to Lever Machines also applies to Semi-Autos and Autos.

    Dont know why you think it necessary to single out a thread about large conical grinders for special attention... Theres loads of info about large planar burr grinders but not that much specifically intrinsic to larger conical jobs and that is what the thread is intended to collect - information specific to large conicals.

    Others who have already posted into the thread seem to understand the intention.... :

    Mal.

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  • ozscott
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    I think Mals idea on such a thread is a great idea. I am keen to see the tips and tricks with these grinders (profile changes etc) - even though I have a Super Jolly I am intrigued by the big conicals. Even though as I understand it the SJ does a very good job of bringing out the chocolatey tastes and smoothness (and in my experience it certainly does) I certainly dont rule out a K10, Robur, or similar as an upgrade one day (a long way off I reckon).

    Lets get the feedback going!

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 6458455E545542575F54300 link=1197961695/12#12 date=1198227519
    I dont have the need for a large conical.
    But if you have a spare looking for a good home I wont knock it back.
    In revisiting this thread today I thought Id update it to add my Gino Rossi (large conical). ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Er no it was not about conical vs flats more about what Moto read into it plus a bit more. Was typed after a few beers too :

    Snobs we may be and guilty of excessive (you can never be excessive I reckon ) upgraditis in a home situation my point was that this sort of narrow discussion may not be as helpful as it could be as many of the questions that arise in your large conical thread are going to be equally applicable to large planer grinders as they share more components than they have different ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • blanyon
    replied
    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    I dont think that BF was saying that you did say all that mal but there is a growing number of people with these grinders at home raving about them. It might be making people feel that their home grinders (even mazzer minis) arent good enough and so they dont participate in the forum as much as they would because they feel intimidated (not by you or others but by the grinders and their cost).

    I will now leave the thread alone and you guys can discuss what you want just thought I would throw in my 2c. (now out to the garage to play with my coffee).

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Originally posted by 7176727D757F6A7A7D74130 link=1268471227/3#3 date=1268477503
    Hi Mal,

    without wanting to drag this thread off topic when it has only just begun. I would back my slow revving connical flat planer Burr DRMs against any of the normal "home user large conicals" (excluding maybe Roburs or K10s) for flavour profile and grind consistancy. In a home situation the increased speed available from the conicals is really a NON issue and the Titan project would back that some planers are as good or better than some lof the arger conicals.

    The problem with starting this type of thread is that it may lead to if its not conical and 60mm + then it is no good. This neglects a large chunk of better planer burr grinders on the market.

    I guess the point is that the best grinders for home use are not necessarily only large conical and in your opening you talk about one being better than the other.

    Similar quandry I am in at the minute considering a large conical for a commercial job conicals are not conicals are different to flats
    Im a bit surprised that youve taken that point of view "bf"....

    Nowhere in my opening post have I made any such claim of the type to which you refer and it is not intended to be another conical versus planar discussion; theres enough about that stuff already.

    Its just as I have intimated, anyone who owns a large conical grinder (grinders plural, in the case of "coffeehorse") who wants to know more about them, how to roast to suit the flavours theyre looking for, etc, etc... In a nutshell, anything that might help owners gain more benefit from owning and using one...

    If you want to start another thread and begin the argument of conical vs. flat all over again, be my guest but this thread aint it.....

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Large Conical Grinder Users Group...

    Hi Mal,

    without wanting to drag this thread off topic when it has only just begun. I would back my slow revving connical flat planer Burr DRMs against any of the normal "home user large conicals" (excluding maybe Roburs or K10s) for flavour profile and grind consistancy. In a home situation the increased speed available from the conicals is really a NON issue and the Titan project would back that some planers are as good or better than some lof the arger conicals.

    The problem with starting this type of thread is that it may lead to if its not conical and 60mm + then it is no good. This neglects a large chunk of better planer burr grinders on the market.

    I guess the point is that the best grinders for home use are not necessarily only large conical and in your opening you talk about one being better than the other.

    Similar quandry I am in at the minute considering a large conical for a commercial job conicals are not conicals are different to flats

    Leave a comment:


  • Koffee_Kosmo
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 475C4746280 link=1197961695/49#49 date=1268250812
    Hi there,

    If anyone its interested here it is a Battle of Titans from ristretto.fi

    Robur vs. K30 vs. Super Caimano vs. Versalab.
    Hola Oton

    I designed a Versalab style grinder before I knew Vesalab grinders existed

    At that point I said S*** someone beat me to it

    My design was belt driven with pulleys of different diameters to adjust speed, very similar to a bench drill

    I like very much, the simplicity of the design

    KK

    Leave a comment:


  • runfast
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 4B504B4A240 link=1197961695/49#49 date=1268250812
    Nice pics in page 7
    Spot the Pullman in Finland!

    Leave a comment:


  • oton
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Hi there,

    If anyone its interested here it is a Battle of Titans from ristretto.fi

    Robur vs. K30 vs. Super Caimano vs. Versalab.

    http://www.ristretto.fi/foorumi/index.php?topic=1284.0
    (in finnish)

    Some Temes thoughts about the grinders in the last post of page 6
    Nice pics in page 7
    Some graphs in page 8
    Excel results in page 9


    Id like to paste a comment made by Teme in his blog (http://temesblog.blogspot.com) about K30 and Robur as I think too that not all is "just taste", ergonomics and wastage are important too in a home environment. (This guy owned a Rocky, Mazzer Mini, Cassadio, Compak K10, Mahl K30, Robur and now a Mahl ProM)

    Now that the K30 has seen the clumping sorted, Id say that for home use I actually think Id rather have the K30.

    Why? Well, mainly because the Robur wastes a lot of coffee (200-300 euros worth per year more than the K30 in my estimation). I also think the K30 is even better built, looks better, has a better grind adjustment mechanism as well as better ergonomics.

    Taste? We did a comparo between the Robur, K30, Versalab and Super Caimano and although the test itself was inconclusive, it was clear that the taste differences really were tiny (even though the extraction did appear slightly smoother with the Robur).

    I think that with the small volume in home use the Robur just does not get in its stride. You need a commercial environment for it really start shining. This is of course just my humble opinion (and in espresso-only use).


    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 596A656F72544C250B0 link=1197961695/47#47 date=1267031756
    with no other changes than the grinder, I could taste the difference with the Kony. It was so distinct that I had to adjust my house blend to my taste. The Kony brought out a number of flavors that were not present when using the Rocky
    Its an amazing phenomenon isnt it Randy.... 8-)

    I havent been able to find any scientific research anywhere that adequately describes why this difference should even be there - but it is definitely there. I think the HB test series is the closest there is to a scientific study to attempt to discover what is going on but nothing that you can fix in concrete...

    Viva la difference! ;D

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy_G.
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    The test at HB was AMAZING! I know, because I now own the very Mazzer Kony that was used in that test. The Kony was an upgrade from a Rancilo Rocky which is a poorly-designed toy in comparison. The upper burr mounting and adjustment system that Mazzer uses is simple and brilliant. it makes adjustments fast and easy, allows tiny changes is grind, and is very repeatable. Even after removing the upper burr (which can be easily done without tools), it is a simple matter of returning it to the same setting.

    From the first pull, with no other changes than the grinder, I could taste the difference with the Kony. It was so distinct that I had to adjust my house blend to my taste. The Kony brought out a number of flavors that were not present when using the Rocky.

    Now, whether the change in taste profile was from the use of a better grinder or the switch from flat to conical burrs, I do not know... Probably never will.

    Leave a comment:


  • vicroamer
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    If you havent already read it, flat vs conical under the microscope, literally here

    Leave a comment:


  • Koffee_Kosmo
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Question

    Can the currently available conical grinders grind fine for Turkish coffee (talcum)

    Or are the burrs designed primarily for pour-over to espresso

    KK

    Leave a comment:


  • runfast
    replied
    Re: Pros and Cons - Flat versus Conical Burrs

    Originally posted by 3B3C3D293A3C2F3A29263C480 link=1197961695/42#42 date=1266783364
    Haha. Runfast, thats cruel!
    Cruel? I quoted this to point out that:

    a) Large conical grinders probably will produce a better cup.1
    b) They are out of reach for many at the present time.
    c) Make the most of what you have with the best coffee you can afford - if you can afford a Kony/Robur then problem solved.

    1 Anfim Super Caimano v 2.0 excluded

    Leave a comment:

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