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Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

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  • #16
    Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

    Would the improved grind be acceptable to use in a Silvia? I know it wont be the best, but would it be better than pre gound?

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    • #17
      Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

      Dont know.
      You would have try it for a definitive answer.
      Preground is stale which is a bad start for it but a course grind wont taste right either.

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      • #18
        Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

        The consistency of particle size also matters. With a mix of large and small particles in the grind, the large tend to under extract and the small to over extract.

        Greg

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        • #19
          Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

          As Greg said above..... consistency of particle size is of paramount importance.

          The manufacturer of these grinders  (Breville, Krups, DeLonghi et al) have limited the size they go down to because the wobble and play in the burrs is significant..... and although you can "cheat" - the results compared to a grinder designed to grind that fine will be disappointing. :P

          I modified a KG100 aka Solis166 as per instructions on the internet some years ago now..... sure it then ground fine enough for espresso..... but take a pinch of the resulting grinds and roll them about in your palm.... and there was everything from reasonably large grinds to dust!!! And the resulting espresso was poor! > With the smallest change in grind setting you will go from a "gusher" to no flow at all..... it is almost impossible to dial in the correct grind! :-[

          If these grinders were capable of grinding that fine..... dont you think the manufacturer would have built them that way? After all they could then ask a lot more money for them..... The truth is they just arent capable..... and doing the mod is a waste of time (other than for the sake of experimentation). The tolerances are just too great.... the manufacturers know this and limit the range to what they can handle! They have designed the grinders for pressurised (crema enhancing) baskets - which require a coarser grind.

          If you want a good grinder for "normal" espresso baskets.... then pay the necessary dollars to get one which is DESIGNED (by the manufacturer) to grind for espresso.

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          • #20
            Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

            Thanks guys, I was just wondering if it would be a short term proposition, designed for failure, so that I could then justify I good grinder. But I think Ill go down the nag-pout-plea etc. path. Ill make do with getting small amounts ground by the shop once I get my silvia.

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            • #21
              Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

              coffee mum,

              It will be a very frustrating short term solution..... as you wont be able to get the best from the Silvia by any means. The Silvia is capable of excellent espresso when matched with an equally capable grinder. You will find it very hard (likely impossible) to get to the "sweet spot" of the correct grind size with one of these modded lesser grinders....

              Also freshly ground coffee will only remain fresh for a few minutes..... so again that will hold back the potential of the Silvia.....

              Suggest the  "nag-pout-plea etc. path" for a decent grinder is your best option.

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              • #22
                Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grind

                I could threaten divorce - but he might say yes, as he is not yet fully convinced on Silvia.

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                • #23
                  Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                  I followed these instructions, and Im really happy with the result. Up until last week I had Breville Cafe Roma, and BCG450 grinder to match. For my 30th birthday my wife and family surprised me with Miss Silvia, and the Breville grinder just wasnt up to the task, producing undrinkable 10 second shots. I will eventually upgrade the grinder, but Rocky is rather on the expensive side, so I tried this mod as an interim solution.

                  A couple notes on the modification:

                  1) The triangular shaped screws on the bottom came off with a mid-sized jewelers screwdriver wedged against one side of the triangle, and a second smaller screwdriver in the remaining space to prevent the main screwdriver from slipping.

                  2) The 3 Phillips screws (X shaped, #2 size) were buried much deeper inside the machine than any of my screwdrivers would go (approximately 6 inches). I had to try 2 hardware stores to find such a long screwdriver in an appropriately small head size.

                  3) pull the timer nob off before removing the case. The start button has to be pressed down and wedged under the case as it comes off. This caused slight superficial damage to the surface of the button, and made getting the case off much more difficult.

                  4) I used a thin bladed hacksaw to get the plastic tab off, very easy and painless.

                  5) I moved the ring around to see exactly what the tab I was cutting off did, I failed to return the ring to its initial position before putting the cover back on, which made things a bit more annoying down the line. The ring needs to be in the same position it started off in to get the hopper back in properly once the machine is reassembled. This can be done once the cover is back on, but its easier with the cover off.

                  6) Getting the case back on over the start button was also a bit difficult, I ended up using a screwdriver to wedge it in there. In the process of getting the cover back on I managed to break the power switch on the back of the machine. The actual switch part is held to the rest of the circuit by two flimsy plastic rings which broke. I fixed this by tying the switch to its housing with a twist tie. The machine works fine, and the twist tie is in the back so no one will notice.

                  7) I followed one persons instructions here to try to reduce the play in the top burr by inserting several strips of paper between the metal and plastic parts until I could no longer jiggle the burr in the housing.

                  Results:

                  Once I got everything back together it appeared as good as new. The dispenser box fits in as well as ever, the hopper turns easily, and it grinds without any problems. I can now move the grind settings in nearly a full circle (many inches past Turkish, not just one as some people have described). With the grind set past Turkish just to the point that I can no longer see any of the writing on the hopper I produced a very fine even grind. Rolled in my palm its indistinguishable from the grind my local roaster gives me for Silvia. Im pulling 25-30 second shots, with a nice deeply coloured crema. Im still getting to know Silvia and her foibles, and my tamping technique changes from shot to shot, but the shots I pulled using coffee from the modded grinder, and those I pulled using beans ground at the roaster (within an hour of grinding there), were pretty much indistinguishable. For where I am know Im very well pleased with this modification. I have no doubt that Ill eventually want to upgrade, but Im really happy with the way the Breville is performing, and plan on using this grinder for at least the next several months - 1 yr.

                  Thanks for all the wonderful advice.


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                  • #24
                    Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                    Enjoy your Silvia. Shes capable of giving a lot of joy in the morning.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                      Hi,

                      I am trying to do the mod to my BCG450, but i cant get the timer knob off and i dont want to break it by forcing it.. Are they glued on? or just pushed on?

                      thanks

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                      • #26
                        Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                        petejo, mayhewga, gourmetproject & All
                        A huge thanks for posting this data, I have a very awesome grinder for a low price & really appreciate all of your input.
                        Best Regards,
                        Jon T

                        Idiotbov, I just pulled hard on the knob & it came off with no issues.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                          I sorted it out last night, and as it has been said, just pulled the dial off, no idea why it wasnt working before, just to make me look like an idiot i suspect... but after the mod it is grinding nice fine coffee like the stuff i buy.. so beans for me next to try it again.. my nephew has some illy beans here but i have always found illy to be a little on the weak side, nice flavour but not strong enough... it could just be me and what i have been used to for years..

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                          • #28
                            Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                            hi all, i just modified my BCG450 grinder as well. Although it is doing finer grind it no wea close to wat i need for my expresso machine. does anyone know if thea is any other technique to make it grind even finer? wud appriciate any help.

                            thks.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                              Got the grinder yesterday and did the modification today without any hassles thanks to the excellent instructions and further information in this thread.

                              The timer knob came off with a fairly decent pull combined with a sideways rocking motion, while the start button was much easier to remove.

                              I used a junior hacksaw to remove the offending piece of plastic without removing the ring, and smoothed the area with a hobby knife.

                              I also took the opportunity to wrap about 4 layers of electrical tape around the top burr to reduce the play it had in the housing.

                              The end result is that I can move it easily an inch past the old stop, so I am going to give it a run in the morning about half way to its new end point and see how it goes.

                              Thanks for the excellent resource!

                              Matt

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                              • #30
                                Re: Breville BCG450...modded...now excellent grinder!

                                Modification can damage your burrs and give you permanently uneven grinds.  

                                I have seen it happen and it is not worth it.  The size of the grinds is limited to the design of the burrs. It cannot get much smaller by bringing the upper and lower burrs any closer together because the gap between the ridges of the burrs probably dictates the size of the grind.  

                                You can get it a tad finer, but there is no protection as to where the limit is before the burrs get damaged.  Once it is damaged, the grinds become uneven, and the grinder is permanently useless.

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