Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Does a grinder really matter that much.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

    Originally posted by 5674706C7777606962776C75050 link=1246006661/29#29 date=1246237016
    This is probably stretching it a bit but even funnier is some CS members have been to his house and had been apart of this test.
    I think that is a really good point, the question being, who were the test audience?

    Apart from that emo, even though I have never tried other grinders, the sheer weight of responses here saying that it does matter makes me believe it. The people here are very particular about their coffee, after all.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

      The difference between my Fiorenzato and my EMO480 is significant enough that I decided I had to bring the Fiorenzato with me on holiday (even though it is huge and weighs a ton).

      Even with such greater practicality of bringing the Sunbeam, the difference in the cup is enough to lug my big monster.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

        Originally posted by 0035383F0B173B32323131540 link=1246006661/17#17 date=1246112045
        Sounds like his customers may only *think* that theyre connoisseurs and perhaps his dinner party coffee is uniformly merde and hes simply lucky that his guests are polite. Alternately, I just read a troll thread... :-?

        Your mate (if he really does exist) is both misinformed and opinionated. Sounds like he needs to to some espresso palate work and learn something to me. What about better grinders and real coffee?

        Cue the moccona ad and lock up the troll food while I queue in Sydney to grab a shot from the EM0450/Mirage combo :
        Wow, if ever I needed some indication as to which site sponsors to steer clear of, I guess those few paragraphs would suffice.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

          Originally posted by 6172656476637E7B72170 link=1246006661/33#33 date=1246260871
          Wow, if ever I needed some indication as to which site sponsors to steer clear of, I guess those few paragraphs would suffice.
          I dont think there has been any reference made to suggest that emos barista mate is a site sponsor, and I dont think ANY site sponsor would spout this sort of garbage.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

            Originally posted by 6B58575D40667E17390 link=1246006661/27#27 date=1246213672
            Randy G. wrote on Yesterday at 2:48am:
            Bottom line - If I went into a shop and found the barrista was doing ANYTHING that compromised the quality of espresso they were producing I would find another shop. ...


            For the record I never mentioned he does anything like this at the cafe.



            I combined the two portions of your story (the baristas home vs. shop techniques and equipment). It confused me.

            Randy, I was just attempting to clarify for the forum that he doesnt use the $200 grinder at work, just in case someone had the impression otherwise.

            Originally posted by 6B58575D40667E17390 link=1246006661/27#27 date=1246213672
            You might want to take a look at the grinder test done on Home Barista.com.  

            thanks - ill take a look

            Originally posted by 5454545A565F5F5C5C390 link=1246006661/28#28 date=1246226158
            Amen AM well put
            Yes AM - your points were very good.

            Originally posted by 6A484C504B4B5C555E4B5049390 link=1246006661/29#29 date=1246237016
            This is probably stretching it a bit but even funnier is some CS members have been to his house and had been apart of this test.

            Im picking it will the 2 that said "Hymm bad pull" Huh
            lol - you know what - youre probably right!  ;D

            Originally posted by 5F55405757584C4A390 link=1246006661/30#30 date=1246239015
            To get back to your OP, you will come across advice contrary to commonly held beliefs all the time. This is a good thing as we cling to such beliefs then we dont really develop.
            absolutely. The world is flat.

            Originally posted by 5F55405757584C4A390 link=1246006661/30#30 date=1246239015
            Im not sure of your dilemma in this situation. What they barista has related sounds plausible but I would like to know the full conditions in which he conducts his test. He may have it dialed in such a way that it provides a great shot for the beans and machine he uses all the time.
            Originally posted by 5A524A405D390 link=1246006661/31#31 date=1246241706
            I think that is a really good point, the question being, who were the test audience?
            To be honest Ive got no idea what the conditions were nor who exactly was involved. This wasnt an half an hour discussion trying to refute the laws of gravity.

            Originally posted by 5A524A405D390 link=1246006661/31#31 date=1246241706
            Apart from that emo, even though I have never tried other grinders, the sheer weight of responses here saying that it does matter makes me believe it. The people here are very particular about their coffee, after all.
            Hmmm. As above - the world was once flat to all but a few. But having said this I am going to take the advice of the forum and buy something in the range of the M4D when finances are in order.

            Originally posted by 4F5C4B4A584D50555C390 link=1246006661/33#33 date=1246260871
            wow, if ever I needed some indication as to which site sponsors to steer clear of, I guess those few paragraphs would suffice.  
            Lol, actually 2 members have already PMd me this exact thought. I tend to share their sentiments. Actually he wouldnt have received my business anyway - I believe Chris is based in Melbourne? Besides - who wants a troll for a client!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

              Hello emo,

              I noticed when reading through some of your earlier threads that you are begining your coffee journey. The questions you have asked about your Sunbeam machine are very relevant to this thread.

              Your machine is an inexpensive one with pressurised filter baskets and FWIW, if you intend to keep this machine, you are best to follow your barista friends advice- buy an inexpensive grinder as it wont make any difference whatsoever. It may be that your friend also uses pressurised baskets at home and thats why he is incapable of picking the difference between a cheap grinder and a good one at home as well- or as suggested, he needs to do some palate work

              You have stated that you had not noticed whether coffee was good or bad when you were out- until a recent experience in Surry Hills- I know of one great cafe there.  

              If you want any hope of replicating that quality at home, you will need a good grinder, and a better machine for that matter.

              If you want to see the difference a great grinder can make with a good machine, you are (as you have stated) best to buy from a local sponsor. Sponsors in your state include DiBartoli, JetBlack and our agent Cuppacoffee -ably headed by Dennis Wells who is also a talented roaster. Any of these establishments will be able to prove your friend is comprehensively wrong.

              CS is a great resource with an incredible diversity of experience and knowledge. You have the opportunity to learn from both sponsors and members whose opinions might differ from yours and those of your barista buddy. Many probably have way more experience as well. There are many "baristas" who are simply button pushers.

              In my experience, statements made by your barista friend present an opportunity for education. Ultimately he and you can choose to learn- or not. Your more recent posts indicate that you are here to learn and I hope you continue along that pathway.

              Finally, my apologies if I jumped to a conclusion, but it did seem as if you asked a question but were not prepared to entertain any answers other than those you already had in mind. Its easy to misinterpret that type of thread as there are trolls on all forums. I am sorry if I judged you rapidly.

              Finally, can I suggest that you look to those with experience as well and those with runs on the board. CS is apolitical and members do support each other as well as sponsors. Beware of new (or was that new old) members with political motivation and boat rocking aspirations who take but dont contribute. As in life, there are nice people and those who will place a knife between your shoulder blades as a form of entertainment  

              Enjoy the journey...

              Chris

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                This is quite a passionate thread!
                Originally posted by 555D5F300 link=1246006661/35#35 date=1246262698
                Hmmm. As above - the world was once flat to all but a few. But having said this I am going to take the advice of the forum and buy something in the range of the M4D when finances are in order.
                A great idea. Ill admit Im a quality junkie, although there is a point where it turns to posing, when your gear far outweighs your needs. However, that being said...

                A beautiful acoustic guitar DOES sound better, feel better and play more easily than a cheapy...
                A 1200 roadbike DOES eat up the miles with less effort at the same speed than a 250 sportsbike...
                An industrial MIG welder IS far easier to use...
                A powerful stereo at low volume DOES sound better than a small one at maximum pace...
                A CD will always sound better than an MP3...
                A pair of Oakleys will ALWAYS look, wear and feel better than a pair of servo specials...
                My beautiful chefs knives sharpened lovingly on Japanese water stones DO cut, handle and hold an edge better than a staysharp.
                Am I an obsessive compulsive? Probably!

                But my M4 is consistent, effortless, quiet, precise, solid and will probably outlast me. Did I achieve good coffee (occasionally! :) with my Cafe Roma and Gaggia? Yes. Would I go back? Not a chance! And the process of using such beautiful equipment is a pleasure in itself.

                And only a true coffee snob would understand...



                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                  Originally posted by 6B7D7878696B676E6E6D6D080 link=1246006661/34#34 date=1246262210
                  Originally posted by 6172656476637E7B72170 link=1246006661/33#33 date=1246260871
                  Wow, if ever I needed some indication as to which site sponsors to steer clear of, I guess those few paragraphs would suffice.
                  I dont think there has been any reference made to suggest that emos barista mate is a site sponsor, and I dont think ANY site sponsor would spout this sort of garbage.
                  cuppacoffee, I think youll find he was refering to talk coffee.
                  But youre right - neither my barista nor his cafe are site sponsors!  ;D

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                    Emo, lets just say that old mate can get $1,000 performance out of a $200 grinder.  

                    Weve all seen Paul Bassett get great results out of a Sunbeam, can find Tiger Woods on youtube hitting a spectacular right handed shot with a left handed club and Top Gear fans will recall seeing Lewis Hamilton cane a Daihatsu sh!tbox around the circuit faster than a layperson can drive most sports cars.  So the million dollar question is:

                    "What can you do with the Delonghi?"

                    If you can produce repeatable Mazzer Mini performance from a Delonghi, then best of British luck to you sir.  Hell, Ill come knocking on your door for a lesson!

                    But...if youre a mere mortal like myself, you may very well benefit from a bit of quality kit.

                    Epic76

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                      Thanks for the entertainment Emo


                      As Chris said enjoy the ride, its all good !

                      CB

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                        hi emo.
                        i must say i shared the feelings of  Chris (TalkCoffee) in regards to the troll thread... i was starting to get  the feeling the whole discussion was a tad skewed towards needling passionate "enjoyers" of a beverage which, with the right equipment but absolutely in the right hands, can exhibit an extremely complex flavour profile.

                        it did cross my mind that, if this thread was genuine, your barista friend must be nothing short of a genius with tamping and setting up his shot  to be able to produce coffee with flavour/aroma/crema characteristics so similar that they are almost indistinguishable no matter what grinder he uses.
                        if he is indeed a naturally gifted barista, good luck to him!!!
                        he is sure to make a fortune and his customers will revere him! (and i am jealous!! )

                        now, back to your original question: does a high priced piece of equipment indeed make a difference or is it just an ornamental  piece of bling .

                        weeell, the M4D arrived today (thanks Chris )... Ms Carimali is sitting somewhat forlorn on the floor in the office and, using the same roast-batch which went through the Carimali yesterday i dialled the M4D in...took about 6 shots /adjustments before i got to about the right grind, then, the next 3 or 4 shots were brilliant.
                        those 4 shots were followed by another 4, and all of those 8 shots were done on slightly (micro-metric) different grind settings; all of them thick, syrupy, stripey and very sweet.
                        the next shot ( the 9th) was off: bit too fast, not sweet.
                        from there on any adjustment to the grind worsened the shot.

                        considering that Ms Carimali has a stepped adjustment ( and probably , being old, a pretty coarse one) and i really did not have to adjust her once the grind was set for the bean, i assume 8 micro-metric adjustments on the M4D would equate to the same "play" in the burrs of 1-2 steps on the Carimali.
                        however, i have never, EVER, had the sweetness, the caramel flavour  which i experienced today.
                        ofcourse, the extra day resting of the beans could be a factor, but for me the grinder made the difference.
                        and that difference was much more than i expected, the Carimali being a commercial, solidly built machine.

                        a blind test with these two grinders?  yes, i would be game.
                        in the right hands both are great grinders....but i suspect the M4Ds grinding is just that little more consistent and that shows in the cup.
                        it ticks all our boxes: it is quiet,  has a small footprint, very easy to program and does an awesome grind.
                        worth the money? i saved about 2 years for this, and honestly: yes!

                        hope this helps

                        L




                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                          I dont think emo is trolling and I am pretty sure I know who hes been talking to

                          I dont think there can (or should) be any more added to this thread than what has been already covered here and elsewhere. But I agree with redzone that it has been entertaining.

                          emo, go and buy the best grinder you can afford. It will be better than not having a grinder and having to rely on pre-ground. I dont know how much a $800 - $1000 will make over a $150 - $200 Sunbeam with your current machine. Checked the Sunbeam website and it recommend the EM0415 grinder as a match.

                          For my first machine (pre-CS days) I relied on pre-ground for a while but my coffee tasted much better when I bought a grinder and even supermarket beans were an improvement when ground fresh.

                          Enjoy!

                          (BTW, the Earth really is round but I dont think man will ever be able to fly nor will the car replace the horse :P)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                            Originally posted by 63697C6B6B647076050 link=1246006661/42#42 date=1246274308
                            ...I dont think there can (or should) be any more added to this thread than what has been already covered here and elsewhere. But I agree with redzone that it has been entertaining.

                            emo, go and buy the best grinder you can afford. It will be better than not having a grinder and having to rely on pre-ground. I dont know how much a $800 - $1000 will make over a $150 - $200 Sunbeam with your current machine. Checked the Sunbeam website and it recommend the EM0415 grinder as a match.

                            For my first machine (pre-CS days) I relied on pre-ground for a while but my coffee tasted much better when I bought a grinder and even supermarket beans were an improvement when ground fresh.

                            Enjoy!

                            (BTW, the Earth really is round but I dont think man will ever be able to fly  nor will the car replace the horse :P)
                            Yes- interesting comments Flynn,

                            Id go as far as to suggest:

                            1. Choppy bladey grinder- dont bother

                            2. Plakky top burr grinder- Sunbeam, Ascaso, Nemox et all...pretty much the same. Price ^^^ delivers mainly bling and perhaps a little usability. These are 1-3 yr propositions and then you will probably ditch them...or go deaf :

                            3. Better constructed metal burr but generally stepped- Rocky, ECA KS etc...Not bad but you will probably upgrade someday or mod. them

                            4. Infinite adjustment in one way or another- K3T through to Mazzer major et al...Bling, speed

                            5. Big Conicals...Mazzer Kony, Robur, K10, BNZ et al...another big quality jump in the cup...

                            Without generalising too much, jump a bracket and you see a difference in shot quality. Shop within a bracket and you will generally get speed and/or usability...

                            Chris

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                              Originally posted by 72414E44597F670E200 link=1246006661/27#27 date=1246213672
                              When I got my Kony (which replaced a Rocky), my wife immediately could taste the difference in her cappuccino. her total sum nomenclature for describing coffee taste is:
                              - too coffeeish
                              - its bitter
                              - MMmmmmmmmmmm, good.
                              I changed the burrs in Rocky about every two years or so.

                              And since the Kony arrived to mate up with the VBM DS, she says, "Its always good."
                              This sounds very familiar with my Rocky!!  LOL....

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Does a grinder really matter that much.

                                Originally posted by 6E5B56516579555C5C5F5F3A0 link=1246006661/43#43 date=1246275493
                                Yes- interesting comments Flynn,
                                What - the bit about round earth, flying or the bit about the horse? ;D

                                I posted before I read your previous post but I noted this comment
                                Originally posted by 6E5B56516579555C5C5F5F3A0 link=1246006661/36#36 date=1246266804
                                follow your barista friends advice- buy an inexpensive grinder as it wont make any difference whatsoever.
                                I wondered what would be the minimum emo should aim for when I was writing my post.

                                I will stand by my statement about challenging accepted wisdom:

                                I made myself a coffee this afternoon with the single basket for no other reason than to try it on the GPP. It was a great shot, every bit as good as ones I have made with a double basket.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X