Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

    Im stoked by the improvement in the cup when using a Compak K10 WBC instead of the Macap M4 or Mazzer Mini. However, before I sell a camera lens to buy this, what are peoples thoughts on the alternatives?

    - Mazzer Robur (not a 3 phase!)
    - Mazzer Kony
    - Macap MX[K]
    - Versalab M3
    - Mahlkonig K30 ES (not conical so perhaps just the best big flattie)
    - Elektra Nino

    Are any of them any better in the cup and cleaner in the grind path?

    cheers,

    John.

  • #2
    Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

    Well I dont know about the cup but the Elektra Nino is rumoured to hold less then 1g in the grind path which is amazing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

      Robur E is pretty nice.

      Grant

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

        yeah, but its also $3XXX isnt it? not sure on the advantages apart from speed + nicer doser over K10?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

          Originally posted by 40544F484143794251434A4A4354260 link=1248790918/2#2 date=1248825859
          Robur E is pretty nice.

          Grant
          But the Kony is snail pace slow (very slow)
          I was shown the grind speed at Veneziano

          KK

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

            Originally posted by 72667D7A73714B70637178787166140 link=1248790918/2#2 date=1248825859
            Robur E is pretty nice.

            Grant
            Grant,

            Does it hold much in the chute?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

              Gavin,

              It holds a little, but I just give a quick flush and the first shot is reasonable. Never as nice as the second/third, but acceptable.

              Because I rarely just make one, the first shot goes into milk and is consumed by my wife whos less picky (most of the time) about such things.

              TBH, I chose the Robur E for ease of use, speed and consistency. Is my palate refined enough to tell the difference between it and some of the smaller grinders? Im not sure, and really it doesnt concern me that much. It improves my total coffee experience which keeps me happy.

              Grant

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                Originally posted by 1E333239233E232E570 link=1248790918/3#3 date=1248826526
                yeah, but its also $3XXX isnt it? not sure on the advantages apart from speed + nicer doser over K10?
                This is true.

                It really comes down to what youre looking for I guess. As I mentioned in my post above, its improved my coffee experience. Funny that we look at the differences in coffee machines at that price bracket and make a choice that rarely is "purely" down to the taste in the cup (truly, can you make an evaluation on a machine pulling a total of five shots in a one hour period vs another machine or two??). The sexy Giotto, the extra reservoir size of the VBM DS (that I rarely need), the retro Diadema look, the size of the drip tray, the feel of the steam wand balljoint.
                Yet for a grinder, the primary driver is the dollars and cents, and discussions of cup quality or aesthetics are much less of a factor.

                Not a shot btw, just something thats caught my attention a little.

                Grant

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?


                  Ill add one to your list John - when you make it to the shop you can try the BNZs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                    Originally posted by 58797272756F1C0 link=1248790918/8#8 date=1248838954
                    Ill add one to your list John - when you make it to the shop you can try the BNZs.
                    I read and seen a photo of the BNZ that has been converted to doserless and looks similar to the Robur E (by adding a Mazzer doserless funnel kit)
                    http://coffeealchemy.com.au/blog/


                    I have also seen one in the flesh and are quite large
                    I have also been told by baristas that they dose straight down with a clean sweep

                    KK

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                      Originally posted by 56727B7B78784256726E70721D0 link=1248790918/9#9 date=1248845408
                      I have also seen one in the flesh and are quite large
                      I generally see machinery in the metal KK  :P

                      Conicals have to be large by nature....You need a big motor and a gearbox....
                      Originally posted by 56727B7B78784256726E70721D0 link=1248790918/9#9 date=1248845408
                      I read and seen a photo of the BNZ that has been converted to doserless and looks similar to the Robur E (by adding a Mazzer doserless funnel kit)
                      Yeppers, you can do...but the funnels retail at something like $340 AUD a pop  

                      Lastly@Identity- just keep in mind that you can put the kettle on while you wait for the Kony to grind a dose. Its mini-manual slow...

                      2mcm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                        When are we going to have a buy one get one free robur e special?

                        Im keeping my fingers crossed....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                          Originally posted by 356A72646F6468616162626A6669070 link=1248790918/10#10 date=1248846263
                          Yeppers, you can do...but the funnels retail at something like $340 AUD a pop
                          Yeah, thats holding me back ever so slightly. ;D

                          Originally posted by 4066716E6936070 link=1248790918/11#11 date=1248851577
                          Im keeping my fingers crossed....
                          Glad youre not holding your breath! ;D

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                            Originally posted by 43574C4B42407A41524049494057250 link=1248790918/7#7 date=1248837431
                            that rarely is "purely" down to the taste in the cup (truly, can you make an evaluation on a machine pulling a total of five shots in a one hour period vs another machine or two??)
                            Nothing is ever purely down to the taste "in-cup" Especially when you have a SWMBO who is also your Global Financial Controller ;D

                            Originally posted by 43574C4B42407A41524049494057250 link=1248790918/7#7 date=1248837431
                            Not a shot btw, just something thats caught my attention a little.
                            Yeah, I agree - I think you can make generalisations, eg. VBM domobar super drip tray...sure, its cavernous, but if you dont epoxy the handle nuts then its half the effective size. And sure, the Galatea tank is easier to access than the Domobar Super, but you lose half of the drip tray, and it doesnt keep the cups as hot. & the LaSpaz looks too ugly "even for its mother to love", so I wont have one. Coffee I think will always be primarily emotional.

                            At the end of the day, I dont want to lose sight of "its whats in the cup that counts". I also havent lost sight of the fact that grinders have more and less ideal partners in different machines - to match the Galatea with the ECA KS gives me better results for many coffees than with the M4, while the Domobar Super prefers the grind of the Macap.

                            @Dennis - ill take you up on that, and the doserless mod is beautiful. It turns it into a pseudo-Versalab, without a lot of the downsides.

                            @Grant
                            re: the $and cents comment, I agree. Im a big fan of hazchem for his approach (Silvia + K10 WBC), but until more people start talking about the deficiencies of smaller grinders/small flat/small conical vs. large conicals, and doing side-by-side comparisons, well struggle. Added to which, some of these beautiful grinders arent so good as cupping grinders, and unless youre a supertaster (I know Im not :-/), then youre very likely to get palette fatigue before you can draw real conclusions, especially when dose, grind and distribution will vary. In fact, Id go as far to say that youd need months of single blind tests to draw definitive conclusions across a range of single origins and blends. perhaps we can use the Sydney Coffee Meetups for some of these tests

                            Originally posted by 174850464D464A4343404048444B250 link=1248790918/10#10 date=1248846263
                            Lastly@Identity- just keep in mind that you can put the kettle on while you wait for the Kony to grind a dose
                            Thats no slower than the M4, and makes my KS look like a snail! Having said that, it seems beaten by the K10 in every way - I was just hoping someone would stick up for it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Ultimate home grinder, K10 WBC or something else?

                              - Mazzer Robur (not a 3 phase!)
                              Fantastic grinder. If money was no object, would buy one in a heart beat. King of the hill. Not so keen on the doserless Robur-E.

                              - Mazzer Kony
                              zzzzz. I could fall asleep waiting for this grinder to grind 20 grams. Slower than a mazzer mini. Seriously!

                              - Macap MX[K]
                              No experience here. The only Macaps Ive used were ones that were running 120 kg of coffee through them a week and wont be fair to judge them based on that amount of volume. Poor things were getting flogged. The metal collars got so hot I burnt my finger adjusting the grind.

                              - Versalab M3
                              No experience here.

                              - Mahlkonig K30 ES (not conical so perhaps just the best big flattie)
                              The old K30s are PIGS! Just a really bad grinder. Clumpy, messy and lots of static. The new generation Mahlkonigs (K30 Twin - stepless grinders) are a marked improvement and I actually enjoyed using them for competition up at 2009 Cafe Biz. A lot cleaner and nice & quiet!

                              If youre after a nice flat burr grinder, go the Mazzer Major. Grind time is pretty close to Robur territory at sub 5 sec for a full La Marzocco double basket.

                              - Elektra Nino
                              Beast! 1 HP motor, extremely quick and the cleanest doserless Ive ever used. (This was before the Robur-E came out - and probably still the cleanest doserless even against the Robur-E). Would have been a great grinder but unfortunately Elektra
                              A) didnt make a group handle cradle that suited La Marzocco and when the LM handle was fitted in the cradle, it rattled like a sh!thouse and sounded like a jackhammer.
                              B) the prototype I got to play with was stepped.

                              Elektra received feedback on both these issues and were fixed. Gotta love companies that listen to feedback!

                              - Compak K10 WBC 3rd gen.
                              Ive owned a few K10s now. Currently on a 3rd generation K10 that I use solely for competition and as a grinder for home.  The latest incarnation of the K10 is killer for home. Clean dosing (relative to the Robur), cleaner sweeping inside the dosing chamber. Compak is another company that actually listens to feedback given. People wanted a nicer looking dosing chamber lid so the grinder didnt look so half baked with it off, so they made it. We wanted metal forks, so they redesigned the construction of the grinder to provide it. We wanted shorted necks so their wouldnt be as much grind retention, they did it. Some of the main weaknesses of this grinder is

                              (a) it holds a lot of coffee in the neck of the grinder relative to the Robur (okay if youre in a cafe)
                              (b) it heats up when getting pumped - were talking like 3-4 kg/hr kind of stuff. (okay for home espresso and comps)

                              For the money, K10 is the goods. Conical, double dose ground in 4-5s depending on dose and grind setting...killer home espresso grinder. If you can jump on a K10, do it because the Compak distributor has unfortunately gone under.

                              Hope this helps you make a decision.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X