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Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

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  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    I finished off the front panel tonight. 

    This is the piece to extend the chute to the front panel:



    The front panel fitted and grinder assembled:


    Temporary external chute made up to see how the grinds come out:


    Seems to be a bit messy, the grinds come out with some speed and bounce out of the PF somewhat, and the throat of the chute is a bit too big.  I might make the chute narrow down into a smaller size and see how that goes.

    As I set the grind finer the grinds all start to jam up inside the grinder inside the internal chute, before even falling out past the front panel.  This makes it less messy depositing into the PF, but a pain the way I use the grinder for a shot at a time, as a heap of grinds stay there getting stale.  Is this normal for these sorts of grinders?  I guess in a high volume application, this is not an issue.

    My wife is not too keen on this beast, what is it with women and their lack of appreciation for things mechanical with some macho styling???  ;D

    I am not sure now whether to try a new set of burrs and see if the clumping inside goes away, or just get the breville smart grinder instead, and get rid of this one?

    Any ideas on the approximate value of such a grinder?

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1310435808/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    The clumping issue I have been referring to (not sure if I am using the correct terminology) happens when the grind is set finer, and the fine grinds accumulate in the chute between the burrs and the end of the chute, instead of just flying into the doser as happens on the coarser settings.

    I will finish the doserless conversion and see how it goes, then get some new burrs and see what difference it makes.

    I will search for pictures of funnel idea, didnt think of using a funnel. I was thinking of using a bit of pipe/tube on an angle. I will have to play with it as the grind come out quite fast, and I think the angle will have an effect on where the grinds end up.

    Cheers

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  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    On the burr question above mine are different but it is a different hybrid burrset so no real way I can tell.

    I did consider doing that with one of mine but as I ended up using them again for commercial work I left the dosers on. You may find you get some soft clumping of the grounds with the doserless mod too.

    For a simple spout option I have seen a few mods done with stainless kitchen funnels around the net.

    Enjoy your playing

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    I was looking at the grinder while it was apart and thought I could perhaps turn it into a doserless model.  So my idea was to replace the front panel/doser with a new flat panel, and create a simple chute for the grinds to be directed to the PF.  My thoughts are I can make the chute easily removable (might hold it in place by magnets), then it will be very easy to clean out any old grinds etc.

    This mod will also be easily and fully reversible.

    I used a sheet of aluminium, and an aluminium angle for the bottom mount, which I secured to the front panel with double sided tape, which is very secure.

    Here is the sheet with hole cut out for the grind adjustment:


    Here is a close up of the bottom angle to secure the bottom of the front panel to the chassis.  I ended up shortening the bottom angle a little making it less deep, as it was interfering with the motor casting etc:


    Here is the panel temporarily mounted up:


    I need to cut a hole for the switch, on lamp, hopper "closer", and grinder setting ring that shows the numbers.

    I have completed a little extension for the chute out of the motor casting to the front panel, and will make some chute to direct the grinds into the PF, from the front panel out.

    Still not decided on the finish of the front panel, I might polish it to a high gloss or paint it.

    I will get some new burrs this week too.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Thanks heaps for your input FB

    I think you are right, the bottom brass burr carrier is cast/machined a bit out of whack, or maybe its been dropped in the past?.

    I am pretty sure the bearings are ok, as there is no play in them at all that I can feel/see.

    I dont mind getting new burrs for it, the local coffex place has advised they have genuine burrs available, but my concern is if the bottom carrier should be dead flat and centric, I will need a new one, and looking at an overseas parts website, it was in the hundreds of dollars!! I might as well get a new grinder. If the small intolerance is "ok" then hopefully the new burrs will improve things and it will be a nice usable grinder.

    Maybe I can pack up the bottom of the burr in the low spot with a piece of feeler gauge to get it more level?

    Are you able to tell if the burrs currently on my machine are genuine? What should the new ones look like (pattern wise) so I can make sure they are the right ones?

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Thanks bean... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

    Mal.

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  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Had a proper read through now I think and cracked the first Coopers Stout 8-). My two Cimbalis are a touch different to yours but share most components. One of mine is a belt drive DRM (the actual manufacturer) so slower speed burrs while the other is more like your junior. However both of mine have the conical/flat burrsets.

    There is a fair bit of shaft above the upper bearing before the burrs so if in doubt replace them bearings are cheap and dont lose the wave washer!

    Originally posted by 6F7C7A636F600E0 link=1309103467/0#0 date=1309103467
    should there be a stopper somewhere on the machine?
    No stopper on them and the numbers mean nothing other than a relative number. One of mine runs at -1 and the other at 3ish for espresso.

    Originally posted by 6F7C7A636F600E0 link=1309103467/0#0 date=1309103467
    the grounds started to clump quite a bit, is there anything that can be done to avoid this
    The clumps if your getting them will only be soft clumps and oily beans could be part of the cause so dont panic they are not hard clumps like some of the smaller grinders can give. Excessive wear on the cutting section of the burrs could be an issue with this.

    Originally posted by 6F7C7A636F600E0 link=1309103467/4#4 date=1309701219
    "interference" fit in between the vertical "sweepers" of the bottom carrier,
    No mine do have a bit of movement between them.

    The Radial difference of .35mm is wrong so either the lower burr carrier or the burrs are not quite machined correctly. That said my thoughts are that while not perfect the angle of the upper to lower cutting faces is fairly slight and there is a bit of flat surface after the bevel sections finish so they will still grind consistantly if they have life left.

    If you are failing to get a grind suitable for espresso without the burrs touching ocasionally with the tiny bit of vertical movement then I would shout it a new set of burrs, I suspect they are actually dead. Regardless of them being good or bad a new set of burrs will be a good thing to have in the drawer if you are going to keep the grinder.

    If you are buying new burrs make very sure you are getting the correct ones as over time several different ODs and designs were used.

    Off out for the night but on balance, slight woof in the lower carrier and worn burrs would be my picks.

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Wow what a tome to read through. Going home to crack a beer and then have a proper read through

    Initial suspicion is the brass sweeper assembly (the bit the lower burr attaches to) may be a touch bent. Best way I can think of to check this initially is feeler gauges in through the doser chamber. If this is bent the lower burr will not sit flat. The upper burr due to the bulk of the carrier is going to be correct.

    back a bit later

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Thanks Mal, I sent him a PM.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Originally posted by 0112140D010E600 link=1309103467/11#11 date=1310051533
    Who is "bf" you are referring to?  Maybe I could send him a PM and ask him if he could shed some light on some of my questions?
    CSer "beanflying"... His details are here mate... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?ac...46E7B6B6C65020

    Mal.

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  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Took it apart (which is surprisingly easy btw) and more measurements:

    The shaft at the end is out radially by 0.002 mm or so, and the top face of the inner race of the bearing (that the bottom burr carrier sits on) is dead level, which means the basis of it are all good.

    I then installed the bottom burr carrier and it was out of level by 0.04mm, which double compared to with the burr installed. I am guessing the carrier is out of whack for some reason, and installing the relatively stiff burr brings it back into shape slightly?

    The eccentricity is still there in the mounting face, but the holes for the burr screws are not centric to the outside mounting face, so perhaps the mounting holes are actually centric and the eccentricity of the mounting face is not important, as it doesnt effect the burrs (the mounting holes do). I am not sure how I can confirm the hole eccentricity? maybe insert the screw and do some measurements with callipers to the centre hole in the carrier?

    Any ideas on how to check the top butt for level? I dont think its dead level, as if I set the grind fine enough so the burrs just touch and spin the shaft by hand, instead of the rub being constant, it comes and goes with each revolution, which would indicate the top burrs are not perfectly level.

    Who is "bf" you are referring to? Maybe I could send him a PM and ask him if he could shed some light on some of my questions?

    Has any one measured the levels/eccentricity of a reliable grinder? I am curious as to what they find. I would have never even guessed to measure the burrs if I didnt have the original issue of the burrs being so far out of alignment.

    On another note, I have thought of a way of making the grinder doser-less which should be quite easy. Make another front panel out of aluminium plate and make a small chute for the outlet.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Originally posted by 2D3E38212D224C0 link=1309103467/9#9 date=1310024454
    Thanks Mal, I mentioned the sizes in a prior post above:
    Sheesh.... Im going blind : :P

    Hopefully "bf" or another experienced owner can shed some specific La Cimbali Junior light on this for you mate....

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Thanks Mal, I mentioned the sizes in a prior post above:

    Are the burrs supposed to be a "interference" fit in between the vertical "sweepers" of the bottom carrier, and the recess of the top carrier?  Mine have a bit of room to move, the burrs measure 63.7mm diameter, the recess 64.1mm.
    So they are not quite an intrference fit.  I will do some more measurements tonight and post my findings.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Cimbali Junior cleanup & a few questions

    Originally posted by 3C2F29303C335D0 link=1309103467/7#7 date=1309965737
    Are the burrs supposed to be an interference fit in the carriers?
    Not on grinders Ive worked on but from your photos above, it looks probable that the Junior uses this option.

    I guess one way to find out is to measure the O.D. of your burr-plates and post the results up here for other Junior owners to comment on. I know "beanflying" has a couple of similar grinders...

    Originally posted by 3C2F29303C335D0 link=1309103467/7#7 date=1309965737
    Maybe my burrs are cheap aftermarket, is there a way to tell them apart?
    Possibly... "bf" might be able to chime in with descriptions of his grinders burr-plates,

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:

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