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When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

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  • When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

    Ive been a very happy owner of a Fiorenzato Doge for quite some time now. However, Im always looking forward to my next upgrade so I can daydream about it until the money is in the bank to actually have the upgrade. In line with this Ive been looking at grinders online.

    Ive found that there seems to be two different "Fiorenzatos". The one which makes my Doge and other Doges, which I know first hand are great grinders built like tanks and I would have no problem owning another one. But then other Fiorenzatos show up which copy the look of the Mazzers and come in models like F5, F6. When I link to the websites for each grinder I get taken to different websites. None of the grinder range of either company overlaps with the other.

    So, who is the Fiorenzato who makes the F5, F6? (and how is it that two different companies both claiming to operate out of Italy can be using the same name?)

    And most important, what is the quality of build and grind of the Fiorenzato that is making the F5, F6 compared to the tank that is the Doge?

    Please shed some light on this for me.

  • #2
    Re: When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

    Okay, Im going to answer my own question now. After a lot searching I didnt find an answer and posted here. Then I kept searching and found the answer shortly after posting here.

    Anyway, in case others are interested:

    quoted from 1st line equipment (USA importer of Fiorenzato - the Fiorenzato that makes the Doge that is):

    "As for Fiorenzato; long story short.

    As explained by the Export Director at Quamar, back in the 40s, Mr Fiorenzato started a coffee grinder company. His two sons took over and they split. One of their daughters husband is using the Fiorenzato name because they have a right to use their last name in the company name, and this is their web site (removed). 1st-line has been contacted by them and 1st-line has evaluated their grinders in Milan, Italy, but there is no business relationship at the time of this writing. Just a little tidbit that we are not sure of the validity - the engineers who left this original company went on to work at Mazzer and Macap.

    Of the original company, the T80 molds of the grinders were sold to another Fiorenzato company. This company was previously named Quamar by Fiorenzato. Due to the confusion, they recently changed their name to only Quamar. Web site is (removed). 1st-line now has a business relationship with Quamar after evaluating their grinders. Keep in mind that 1st-line does NOT stock parts for the former Fiorenzato T80 as this grinder is very old and we were advised that parts were different.

    Finally, the name Fiorenzato was sold to the current Fiorenzato Macchine per Il Caffe. This company currently owns the rights to the Fiorenzato name in Italy with many entailing lawsuits, but the original company can use the name because of the last name rights. 1st-line was a distributor for their products through their previous USA office. This summer, 1st-line has become the importer for the USA.

    I hope this clears things up...."



    Anyway, still wanting to know what the build and grind quality is on the Fiorenzato F5/F6 is if anyone has experience. The fact that 1st line evaluated their products and have chosen not to form a business relationship worries me.

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    • #3
      Re: When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

      Originally posted by 6E5F485150575C51473E0 link=1321951789/1#1 date=1321954120
      Anyway, still wanting to know what the build and grind quality is on the Fiorenzato F5/F6 is if anyone has experience. The fact that 1st line evaluated their products and have chosen not to form a business relationship worries me.
      Weve started importing Fiorenzato F5s and F6s recently, and have sold a few. My personal opinion is that they are built as well as Mazzers, and in some ways are a superior design - namely, having the doser adjuster nut underneath the doser rather than inside it. One weak point is the plastic surround at the top of the doser body, which includes the cutout switch. It has to be removed from the doser before the doser assembly can be removed from the grinder, and relies on small plastic tabs to clip in place. I suspect these will break after a few removals unless the person doing so is very careful.

      One other problem that has just surfaced is the range of doser adjustment. These grinders have just been redesigned, and an unforseen result of the redesign of some doser parts is that the separator plate in the doser that determines the volume of coffee per pull of the handle now sits 3mm higher than it used to at the lower limit of its travel. This means that if you want to set it up for 2 pulls/single and 3 pulls/double, you can only JUST manage this with 14 gram baskets, theres no way you can do it with a 12 gram basket. Once I spotted this we did some back-to-back tests with a Mazzer Super Jolly and Mini, a couple of older F5s and a Compak K8. The new F5s dose approx 1.4 grams more at their minimum adjustment. We emailed all these findings to Fiorenzato and they hadnt realised there was an issue - were waiting for them to respond to see how the problem should be solved, but in the meantime they can be fixed with a bit of machining of one particular part (the lower star wheel in the doser).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

        I bought an F6 ....Outstanding value , same specs as a Mazzer Major  ,83mm grind wheels, big motor, solid dosser , that sweeps very clean . when ever I have disassembled and cleaned the grinder it retains less than 2g of grinds , I cant speak highly enough of this brand and model......

        After owning it for a month I bought a second for Decaff. These grinders are fantastic IMO.

        Cheers

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        • #5
          Re: When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

          Originally posted by 57504B4C57505B3F0 link=1321951789/3#3 date=1330762645
          I bought an F6 ....Outstanding value , same specs as a Mazzer Major  ,83mm grind wheels, big motor, solid dosser , that sweeps very clean . when ever I have disassembled and cleaned the grinder it retains less than 2g of grinds , I cant speak highly enough of this brand and model......

          After owning it for a month I bought a second for Decaff. These grinders are fantastic IMO.

          Cheers
          I may be about to jump onto the Fiorenzato wagon as Ive been offered a F64e at what seems a good price. The trouble is Im having a hell of a time trying to find any real details or reviews on it....which worries me a bit after reading the history of this company.

          Any clues where I can get some good soup on the F64E?

          Pete

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: When Fiorenzato isnt Fiorenzato?

            Stop worrying Pete......The grinders work fine.....thats either of the two "Fiorenzatos", although some of us might say they are a tad pricey. Not well supported in Australia, and that is nothing more than they havent had anyone importing and distributing in a big way here like other brands that have as a consequence become much more well known.

            You only need to decide whether you want something as big as an elephant (relatively) in your kitchen, because size doesnt necessarily upgrade your quality....just the volume you want to put through. And at home, thats pretty well irrelevant.

            So whether you go for a 64 mm, or a 58, or even a 50 mm grinder, is not really an issue. The real issue would be more like what is the total "usability / satisfaction in use" factor for any particular grinder, that will suit you and your good wife in her kitchen, and still make you an excellent coffee/.

            FWIW.....what do you mean by "a good price". Do you mean for example, someone has offered you say a $1000.00 grinder for $750.00, and therefore it is a good deal for what it is?

            And if that is the case, and you can buy say a Macap M4 (58 mm) for a similar price, and get a more compact great grinder in your kitchen, or say one of the Compak K3 (also 58 mm) models for say somewhere between $450 and $600......then the F64 may be a "good price" for what it is, but it doesnt do anything any better than the others and still costs significantly more.......

            You need to know what you want or are trying to achieve

            Hope that helps.
            A.

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