Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mazzer burr finish quality

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mazzer burr finish quality

    Its a grudgingly accepted fact that new grinder burrs require seasoning before they become consistent - ie. you have to waste a fair few kilos of coffee on a new burr set to remove the jagged edges from the machined surfaces before they are reliable. James Hoffman in particular made alot of noise about it on his blog last year, which I remember reading and thinking wow, what a pedantic rant.

    Well, upon closely examining a new genuine Mazzer robur burr set, all I can say now is it is absolutely justified, these things really are not very well machined. I took some photos to get a closer look, and its fairly obvious that Mazzer need to invest in some new tooling, because the machine that cut the coarse grinding surfaces on this burr set is well and truly BLUNT. A bit disappointing on a $250 piece of metal, and I will henceforth cease to defend Mazzer when people complain to me about the quantities of time and coffee wasted on bringing new burr sets into line.












  • #2
    Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

    Great and eye opening photos Rick.

    My Robur-e is starting to behave now at 4000 shots in.

    Id be interested to know if the average finish is consistent across all sets or are you more unlucky than most?

    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

      id say about 4000 sounds right for me too (20~g doses). The photo really is an eye opener. Ive never seen a new burr set up close like that. Ive seen some with my bare eyes but didnt notice anything close to that. Thanks for posting

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

        Great photos, but they leave me wondering what all the other grinders burrs look like when new!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

          Pretty similar I would think, and I should add its definitely not just Mazzer turning out poorly finished burrs - in the manufacturers defence the genuine OEM burrs are a harder steel alloy than the generic sets (as is my understanding from anecdotal evidence - dont know for sure), which would explain why visually the generic ones look quite good by comparison and settle down much quicker, but have a reduced lifespan in the long run.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

            Is the estimated 4000 shots -  80kg at 20gm per shot - whats to be expected for top of the range grinder/grinder burr sets ?

            Presumably those of us using grinders from the consumer or appliance end of the spectrum are also using softer and smaller burr-sets. So how many kg before my BCG800 can be described as "seasoned"? If ever ?

            As for machining, if its not a red herring, are these really harder and therefore more difficult than say automotive gearbox components ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

              I ran through maybe a kilo for my smart grinder before i noticed it had settled down. However i didnt pay too much attention to it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                250 bucks and they cant even remove the jagged bits off the burrs... pretty poor if you ask me

                I remember my dad telling me if engineers left edges like that they would cop a bollocking from the boss... clearly times are changing

                4000 shots for me would be years upon years

                I guess these photos are one way for me to cure upgraditis...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                  If I took photos of my straight razors (honed to 16,000 grit and finished on 0.25 micron diamond spray) at a high enough magnification the edge would look shocking too...

                  So Chris, care to take some pics of your "now seasoned after 4000 shots" burrs so we can compare??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                    Originally posted by 6E5650404F4650230 link=1325840899/8#8 date=1325900330
                    If I took photos of my straight razors (honed to 16,000 grit and finished on 0.25 micron diamond spray) at a high enough magnification the edge would look shocking too...

                    So Chris, care to take some pics of your "now seasoned after 4000 shots" burrs so we can compare??
                    Insightful comment Muscles and an interesting comparison/s - both burr-sets to razors and new burr-set to old burr-set. I think I might look at some of my turning chisels later. Ive just had some sharpened and honed by a 40 year turning veteran. Im now thinking theyd look similar under high magnification.

                    The "jagged bits" in the OPs first images look large enough to feel with finger tips though. Just how high is the magnification in the images Rick ? Or rather (Im ignorant enough to need to ask) how big is a Mazzer burr-set ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                      Originally posted by 675F5949464F592A0 link=1325840899/8#8 date=1325900330
                      So Chris, care to take some pics of your "now seasoned after 4000 shots" burrs so we can compare??
                      Sorry muscles,

                      I have neither suitable equipment and lighting, nor time.

                      Perhaps a CSer with the appropriate gear and grinder may have the means to assist.

                      Chris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                        dabbler, to me an edge is an edge and when it comes to burrs there are two opposing "teams" - those who believe in seasoning and those who do not. I have not chosen a team yet as I do not have the appropriate experience. This whole topic does interest me though. I would love to see pics at the same magnification over time, say for example every 500/1000 shots so we can see the actual wear and tear. Perhaps the OP will oblige??

                        Chris, no probs but a shame really as we could have had a direct side by side comparison and a great idea of what wear 4000 shots could impose on a set of burrs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                          Originally posted by 5B404A42764B46474D290 link=1325840899/0#0 date=1325840899
                          Well, upon closely examining a new genuine Mazzer robur burr set, all I can say now is it is absolutely justified, these things really are not very well machined.
                          Dont be too tough on Mazzer Rick, the quality of steel is probably the most important part of the equation, sure the burrs have rough edges as does any edged tool, see the magnified images of various cutting tools here http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/qx3.html
                          The so called seasoning process is simply the burrs having the rough edges knocked off of them before they settle down to doing what they do well for the rest of their useful life, a little like running a new motor in.
                          The word seasoning implies some sort of magic taking place within the material the blades are made from and is poor terminology.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                            The pics posted of the burrs do not appear to have a huge magnification, I would say you could easily see the protruding edges by eye, judging by the relative size of the other details of the burrs. The protrusions are quite significant and it they are in the precison crushing area of the burrs, then the performance would be far from ample.

                            I am no expert, but to me it looks like its quite poorly machined, almost like the cutting tool is too blunt and has melted/pushed the material rather than cut it, creating the protrusions. Its quite dissapointing considering this is meant to be at the pointy end of grinders.

                            It would be good to see similar pics of burr sets from cheap grinders like the smart grinder for a comparison.

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mazzer burr finish quality

                              I am no expert, but to me it looks like its quite poorly machined, almost like the cutting tool is too blunt and has melted/pushed the material rather than cut it, creating the protrusions. Its quite dissapointing considering this is meant to be at the pointy end of grinders.
                              @Artman, agreed. Yes there are some edges particularly on the fine grinding faces that are sharp and just have some machining swarf hanging on, but the coarse bean crushing area has been cut with a blunt tool - the edges are essentially heat extruded, not cut and will never be sharp in my opinion.

                              I cant be bothered working out the exact magnification, but its roughly 10X. the actual burr size on my monitor, which is 96 pixels per inch laptop screen. These are big burrs, the defects are easily big enough to see with the naked eye.

                              I might do some comparison images with an old non-genuine burr that is at the end of its life, and I might pull this one out and check it after maybe 10 kg of coffee but its in a home environment so even that might take a while!

                              To me the term seasoned simply means the burr has seen a fair bit of coffee, but yes I agree it could be interpreted as some sort of metallurgical effect

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X