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Mazzer v Macap

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  • Mazzer v Macap

    I know this is a common question - have searched the forums but curious as to some personal experiences - is it worth the extra $$$ to look at the Mini-e/M4D over the Mini/M4 - i think i have probably convinced myself that i like the Macap better but wonder whether the extra $$ are all about the nice digital readout and dosing convenience and whether this is actually useful and worthwhile to go for the M4D (i would really like to go for the M4D but struggling to justify the expenditure if it doesnt actually improve the outcome in the cup)

  • #2
    Re: Mazzer v Macap

    I recently made the same decision and only today my Macap M4D arrived from a CS Sponsor.

    When I was looking at the options I was comparing the Mini-e vs the M4D, though in the end it became the SJ-e vs M4D. Still yet to play around extensively with the M4D as I got home late from work tonight. Though I find it is clumping a fair bit.

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    • #3
      Re: Mazzer v Macap

      I think that for home use a doserless non electronic grinder is the best. Current "e" grinders just arent accurate enough for espresso in my opinion. In cafes where theyre in constant use its okay as they speed things up (though you have to sink a shot every now and then from inaccurate dosing). For home use its just not needed, especially if youre using scales (which you should be). Clumping isnt a huge deal if you use the WDT.

      Secondly the bigger burr grinders create a lot of waste. Some people dont mind purging ~20g of coffee before each shot but it just doesnt sit right with me. You can argue that spending thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment and getting picky about wasting a few dollars of coffee is ridiculous, but I personally dont like waste.

      as to your last note, you cant justify spending more for an electronic version if your goal is to improve whats in the cup. These grinders dont do that. They just improve upon convenience.

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      • #4
        Re: Mazzer v Macap

        I can agree with what Zaneus is saying.

        I have had until today a Macap 4D (SOLD here) and now I have upgraded to a Kony Electronic (Arriving Monday) I have found that on a Kony E (friends)  there is an increase in wastage compared to the Macap 4D. 

        The larger conical bur set in the Kony - not as big as a roubur - does create more wastage. I am finding 20 grams , or one double shot, is binned. Add to that the running in of the grinder, approximately 10 kg.

        This is ok for someone like my self  to do a sacrificial offering to the coffee gods , but for Mr home it is money gone into the thump box.

        I have had great success with a macap 4M , infact I preferred it over the Macap 4D, in regards to simplicity. I removed the doser from the 4M and modified it, as you do , into a doserless. I have found that there is a less wastage over all.

        I am finding that really it does not matter what grinder you buy, electronic or not. Consistency and improvement is gained buy developing a solid repeatable "Pre Shot" routine, sorry to the golf nuts out there, that you can fall back on every time.

        Recently I attended a Barista Jam here in Wagga Wagga.

        Five Baristas
        Synesso Hydra 3 Group with VST baskets.
        Mazzer Robur Electonic
        Pullman tamper.
        Same shot time and Grind

        There were 5 very distinctive shots poured. So I am convinced that technique plays a very big part in the process.

        Cheers,

        Grind IT



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        • #5
          Re: Mazzer v Macap

          Originally posted by 0E353A312127540 link=1326802956/2#2 date=1326892740
          Current "e" grinders just arent accurate enough for espresso in my opinion.
          Sorry- I have to disagree there.

          Got up this morning and made a slight tweak to grind size. 6 absolutely identical timed shots.

          In high use commercial situations heat and ambient can and do have an impact. At home, I set the grinder (if required) in the morning and rarely touch it again during the day.

          Cheers

          Chris

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          • #6
            Re: Mazzer v Macap

            Theres no need for wasted coffee. Only put enough beans in for the shot youre doing and clean the chute with a click-clack lid or paint brush before dosing so the grounds all end up in the basket.


            Java "Presto! No waste!" phile
            Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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            • #7
              Re: Mazzer v Macap

              Alright then I think i may just go with the manual Macap M4 and spend the extra on a Behmor roaster - at least this should improve my final product

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              • #8
                Re: Mazzer v Macap

                I tested the mini-e timer accuracy and found it to be excellent. (0.1 second accurate, or better).
                Read the last post here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1314019879

                I would definitely recommend a timed dose on the mini e as it takes nearly 20 seconds to grind, so you can use that time to steam milk or do something else...its quite handy actually. The filter holder and cone are also very clean, often there is not even a spec of ground coffee spilled.

                Also, the mini e has 64mm burrs compared to 58mm on the mini (and m4).

                I dont agree with Zaneus that bigger grinders create more waste - possibly true for huge roburs etc, but Ive tested the Mini-e (64mm) vs the Rocky doserless (50mm burrs)  and the rocky produced a LOT more waste. The mini e produces 3-4 grams of waste - nothing close to 20g!
                Clumpiness plays a part; the mini E grinds are light, fluffy and less sticky than the Rocky grinds. Static may be an issue on some grinders (mazzer, and possibly macap? have antistatic screens).

                I havent used a macap but reportedly they grind faster (9 seconds?) so its not as important to have a timed dose to speed your routine up.

                Both grinders use a timer, not a volumetric dosing system (if that even exists) so depending on the freshness and density of the beans, the quantity of the measured dose will vary.  Its consistent if you stick to one type of bean, but if you switch blends often, it may mean adjusting the grind And timer to suit each blend. Or you can go back to the manual on demand button, or program two buttons for two different blends.

                Would the timer improve the outcome in the cup? Depends how lazy you are with the dosing! If you prefer to overfill the holder then swipe off excess coffee, then a timer wont really help. The point of a timer is that you dont need to overfill, then level...it just fills for you.
                If youre really fussy and measure out your beans for each coffee, then you should just get a Super Jolly and run it without the hopper. (similar price to mini e, but faster, and 64mm burrs as well).
                If you decide a doserless manual grinder is the way to go, browse the net for "doserless super jolly"  - its a very nice customised setup, and great value.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mazzer v Macap

                  Originally posted by 207F67717A717D747477777F737C120 link=1326802956/4#4 date=1326925740
                  Originally posted by 0E353A312127540 link=1326802956/2#2 date=1326892740
                  Current "e" grinders just arent accurate enough for espresso in my opinion.
                  Sorry- I have to disagree there....
                  Me too, they are dead accurate and are designed expressly for espresso in the commercial situation. If clients choose to buy them and use them for small volume use at home and find them "difficult" to use for whatever reason, then thats just the way it is for those individuals.

                  WRT the topic. I can take anything I want home for the fews coffees i make there on Sat and Sunday mornings, and I choose to use a cafe sized doser grinder as I prefer that rather than to use an e-grind on demand grinder. Its actually NOT accurate compared to an e grinder however....its personal preference through experience, and the rest is up to the operator (me). My shots are quite accurate!

                  Hope that helps.

                  Attilio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mazzer v Macap

                    Originally posted by 754E414A5A5C2F0 link=1326802956/2#2 date=1326892740
                    For home use its just not needed, especially if youre using scales (which you should be).
                    ;D Are you serious?

                    Coffee making is an art, not a science. Measuring beans or coffee grounds before I pull a shot would detract from my enjoyment of the coffee making process.

                    I looked at all of the grinders on offer and like Atillio I choose to use a dosered grinder, still really happy with the espresso I make 8-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mazzer v Macap

                      Geez did I miss that hehehehe.

                      Must be slipping.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mazzer v Macap

                        I dont see the point in shunning scales for the sake of art when they do nothing to harm the final flavour. I still find i enjoy the coffee making experience just as much (though i enjoy drinking it more). But i guess this is a conversation for another thread  ;D.

                        for the record though im not the type to say "you have to follow this specific brew recipe for the best coffee" I simply use scales to keep an accurate record of things. If i happen to make a mind blowing cup then id like to know exactly what i did to get there.

                        As for inaccuracy i still stand by my word. 9 times out of 10 ill get a shot thats within .2-.3 of a gram of the last one. but every once in a while the grinder will under dose or up dose by a gram or more. Not something im entirely happy with. In a commercial environment i wouldnt pick any other grinder. But for home id prefer a smaller flat burr doserless grinder (super jolly, mini, etc)

                        @skelly, for waste i was referring to the larger conical grinders like the robur. Kony isnt as bad. Ive cleaned out a robur before and operated the grinder without the top burr. Theres no way to get all the coffee out of the grind chamber in a normal situation, it just spins round and round. You can dig the coffee out of the chute without too much hassle but theres still a bit of coffee in the chamber. And on the rubur, the chamber is quite big and can hold a fair bit of coffee.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Mazzer v Macap

                          Originally posted by 0F343B302026550 link=1326802956/11#11 date=1327054584
                          As for inaccuracy i still stand by my word. 9 times out of 10 ill get a shot thats within .2-.3 of a gram of the last one. but every once in a while the grinder will under dose or up dose by a gram or more. Not something im entirely happy with.

                          If you werent wasting your time with the scales you probably wouldnt even notice. Ill give the scales a miss and just enjoy the process and the results

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mazzer v Macap

                            Originally posted by 4046515A40475F5D340 link=1326802956/9#9 date=1327034304
                            Coffee making is an art, not a science.
                            Its a craft actually; and measuring the right dose is a sign of mastery of the subject - not a weakness

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mazzer v Macap

                              Please, i go days without weighing my dose at work. If youre used to dosing 20 grams you can tell when the grinder gets it wrong. Especially if you try and pull the shot anyway.

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