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Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

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  • Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

    Hello there fellow CSers I just took the step to upgrade one of my Mini-Es to a Kony-E (its quite the unit on my kitchen top) I set it up as soon as i purchased it yesterday, loaded it up with some CSs "Sumatran Mandheling Select" and hit the double dose button and then again and again to get the coffee running through the grinder. It came out rather fine and in square blocks from the static screen at the end of the shoot. I adjusted it over and over until i had a grind setting i as happy with but still had madly excessive clumping. So i just decided to take it as coarse as needed before the clumping stopped and the it was more like corse sand in consistency. Anyway so after playing around it dialed it into where i thought was best and it still clumped bad. I switched to a blend to see if it was by any chance the coffee, still clumping and then switched again to another SO and still the same. In the frustration i just dosed my PF anyway and distributed the best I could with the clumps, tamped and pulled the shot, it was to coarse. I did some further dialing in and was getting closer to the right flow rate but blondeing rather fast. After all of this decided to manually de-clumped and pulled a great tasting shot. I know there are quite a few CSs out there swearing by and using a Kony-E at home and there has been posts about this before but i havent seen any follow ups on if those people resolved the clumping. Some people removed the static screen, others dealt with it and some are told its going to take a good 25kgs of coffee to go through it before the burrs bed in and it comes into its own and some have just not had this issue at all. Has anyone out there with a Kony-E experienced this straight out of the box and where you able to resolve this issue? Does any of us know what causes this? I purchased it from a Mazzer importer and CS sponsor Genovese Coffee Those guys where pretty awesome about it, they said theyd seen this issue before and didnt think running a ton of coffee through it was improve it. They made me at home, made me an espresso ground with a Kony-E funnily enough which didnt clump and said theyd happy exchange it for what ever else i wanted at the price i paid if i couldnt get it sorted by monday. I badly want to keep this on my bench though, thoughts anyone? In advance thanks for looking at this post

  • #2
    Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

    Hi Mick,

    FWIW, I have never seen any more than soft "pillow clumping" with grinders of this standard and its present in all of them with some grinds and climatic conditions. Dosing very low and fine will magnify the effect.

    My advice would be to compare it with another Kony-E or a similar grinder for the same dose, grind size and flow and then see where youre at. It might be an idea to try it back in the Genovese training room on one of their machines as well.

    Let us know how you go....

    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

      Thanks Chris, its very strange. I thought it was something i was doing. I did compare it yesterday to the one out the back in Genovese staff room and the difference was chalk and cheese. Light fluffy and very nicely mounded in the PF unlike what i have going on where the clumps of balls just take the path they desire once they hit the PF. I picked up some Genovese coffee just for argument sake to see if this at all would make a difference.. Not one bit of difference.

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      • #4
        Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

        It sounds like you might have got a monday morning or a friday afternoon machine.

        With Genovese being so helpful Id be continuing to see what they could do.

        Greg

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        • #5
          Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

          Originally posted by 13263133033B2639353830540 link=1329571021/3#3 date=1329605174
          It sounds like you might have got a monday morning or a friday afternoon machine.
          More like a once in a blue moon occurence I reckon Greg

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

            Hey Mick,

            Glad you sorted out the colour mismatch by upgrading to the Kony  ;D

            Did you say the guys from Genovesse made a coffee using your equipment, and were able to get clumpless ground beans using the Kony on your bench?


            Heres my experience:

            Mine was a 2nd hand Kony-E that had 100 on the shot counter.  It now has 620 on the counter (I normally press the double button) and in the past month, I have noticed a reduction in clumps (theres hardly any now). Clumps are more noticeable when Im using beans that need a finer grind than usual (5~6 notches away from where I usually have it).

            Since day 1, Ive always found the clumps to have minimal impact on the extraction.The clumps break quite easily when Im leveling my mound and Ive always had a better extraction from the Kony in terms of colour & texture (compared to the Mini). Its very hard for me to comment on the taste as Ive never sat down to do a side by side taste test.

            My technique (dose, settling tap, level, tamp) is the same for both mazzers. The extractions from the Kony is uniform in colour and has a fluffier texture. Extractions from the Mini occasionally end up with stripes and although thick, it doesnt have that fluffiness/powdery feel. Ive read about WDT and its supposed to help with the striping but its too much effort in my opinion.

            Anyways, long story short - Hang onto the Kony for a bit longer. People talk about a seasoning period for the burrs to wear in. I believe it because Ive had less clumps and a shorter grind time (dropped from 7.8 to 6secs, give or take 0.2 seconds).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

              I removed the screen on mine from day one, I can now get my brush in the shoot and clean it out and I dont think that the screen adds much but others opinions may vary.

              I agree with Chris, the clumping that comes along mainly on humid days but it is always there, is very light and fluffy and a gentle tap will break them up.

              If you have a good look at the grinds they should be very uniform and consistant and fluffy clumps, not the hard uneven clumps seen in cheap grinders.

              The most important thing is how is the coffee?

              I have 3195 on my shot counter now and it is rock solid. Pours from the naked PF look and taste great.

              Dont get hung up on the clumping if it doesnt have any adverse effects on your shots, best of luck with it, I hope it brings you many years of great coffee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                Originally posted by 247B63757E7579707073737B7778160 link=1329571021/4#4 date=1329605853
                More like a once in a blue moon occurence I reckon Greg
                Just my luck if there is a fault  :-/

                Originally posted by 656673757F777A6677786265160 link=1329571021/5#5 date=1329607603
                Glad you sorted out the colour mismatch by upgrading to the Kony 

                Did you say the guys from Genovesse made a coffee using your equipment, and were able to get clumpless ground beans using the Kony on your bench?
                Thanks SP, yeah that colour problem is a thing of the past they both match up perfectly.
                No they used their Kony-E, i just did a comparison as best i could in comparing particle size and using their blend in my grinder. To get the same sort of feel, it clumped.

                It could be my imagination but it seems the slightest bit better after 2kgs, but ive posted up a 18g dose i did just now with a medium roasted SO Harrar. What do you guys think? Is this what your seeing with your Kony?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                  Mine was similar to that when I first got it.


                  This is what it looks like now. Not that it makes a difference, but this is a medium-ish Indian Elephant Hills I roasted myself... which is on a finer setting than usual.

                  The clumps pretty much crumble once it comes into contact with a finger. This is a picture of ground beans landing straight onto a saucer.



                  Link to the original file
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/maximum...n/photostream/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                    Originally posted by 7A796C6A6068657968677D7A090 link=1329571021/8#8 date=1329635398
                    Mine was similar to that when I first got it.


                    This is what it looks like now. Not that it makes a difference, but this is a medium-ish Indian Elephant Hills I roasted myself... which is on a finer setting than usual.
                    Thanks so much for posting that image SP. Thats a bit of a relief that its quite normal, im stoked i dont need to take it back in. What do you think causes that? Im under the impression that the initial imperfections from the manufacturing process create an un-evenness on the burrs edges which causes some finer grinds which causes the clumping, they eventually get worn away (bedding in process) and grind particles gather consistency? And would i be right to say that it would be more of a common occurrence on a conical due to the fact that one burr has to spin dead exact in the centre of the other? Would that sound about right? I honestly dont know anything to do with the science or manufacturing of grinders, I do know a bit about how metal is machined though and going through it in my head this makes sense, i could be way off though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                      I dont know what the answer is. Do you get this with your Mini-e?

                      Its probably a combo of a few things and I doubt its got anything to do with the burrs. I think over time the beans must somehow polish the chute and the metal grid which makes it easier to fall out. Thats my educated guess though..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                        Originally posted by 787B6E68626A677B6A657F780B0 link=1329571021/10#10 date=1329645149
                        I dont know what the answer is. Do you get this with your Mini-e?

                        Its probably a combo of a few things and I doubt its got anything to do with the burrs. I think over time the beans must somehow polish the chute and the metal grid which makes it easier to fall out. Thats my educated guess though..
                        Not at all with the Mini, thats why i found it pretty odd.
                        Hopefully it goes away soon enough with any luck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXUoMEqtBY

                          heres a video I did a while back when the shot clock was <200

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                            When I first get my Kony E I was quite disappointed with the clumping.  What is strange is that it has gone away completely.  Kony E is two years old.
                            I also removed the screen.
                            I have substituted the bean holder for a piece poly pipe and have modified a pipe end cap to hold just the right amount of beans (17gms) for our two flat whites. Yes I know the Kony is an overkill. I also sweep out the body shoot so no grinds are left to go stale. A combination of this  may have reduced the static.

                            It may simply be the beans we use or a change in the house humidity.  In thinking about it, however, it may be that the grinding cones have worn in and the grind is now very clean and even.

                            My tamping is different. I did not have an even extraction. So i tap the grinds flat in the PF then lightly tamp with a single basket that pushes the grinds down but also towards the edge of the PF then I tamp with a Pullman tamper.  I felt that there was channeling around the edges. This tamping has solved the problem. This may also help if grinds are clumping.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mazzer Kony Electronic - Excessive Clumping

                              Originally posted by 6071696D7D65040 link=1329571021/13#13 date=1335164953
                              When I first get my Kony E I was quite disappointed with the clumping.  What is strange is that it has gone away completely.  Kony E is two years old.
                              I also removed the screen.
                              I have substituted the bean holder for a piece poly pipe and have modified a pipe end cap to hold just the right amount of beans (17gms) for our two flat whites. Yes I know the Kony is an overkill. I also sweep out the body shoot so no grinds are left to go stale. A combination of this  may have reduced the static.

                              It may simply be the beans we use or a change in the house humidity.  In thinking about it, however, it may be that the grinding cones have worn in and the grind is now very clean and even.

                              My tamping is different. I did not have an even extraction. So i tap the grinds flat in the PF then lightly tamp with a single basket that pushes the grinds down but also towards the edge of the PF then I tamp with a Pullman tamper.  I felt that there was channeling around the edges. This tamping has solved the problem. This may also help if grinds are clumping.
                              Hi Dumiya,

                              Would you please be able to post some pics of the poly pipe mod you have done.

                              Comment

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