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New grinder any my routines gone awol...

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  • #16
    Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

    Originally posted by 21272A332B273F460 link=1337251224/13#13 date=1337339138
    Originally posted by 5B5D4A415B5C44462F0 link=1337251224/12#12 date=1337333208
    Probably just as well you didnt then
    I dont want to hijack the thread, but if you dont understand why consistency and understanding of the process is a critical element to making great coffee - then you will only ever achieve it randomly, by accident.

    If you are happy with the coffee you make, then I am happy for you. My goals are a bit higher!

    Seriously though, this sort of discussion is now way off topic so I shall refrain from the temptation to further discussion. 

    Cant say I agree with you at all Galumay. Much like winemaking... where the best results tend to be made by artists with a grudging respect for the science behind the process (rather than those technically clean yet soulless wines made by technicians)... the finest and most characterful coffees will tend to be made by those with a passionate feel for what they are doing. As for consistency, I cant remeber the last time I made a sink shot and I am fully confident that the shots I am happy with will easily meet the rather lofty standards you seem to have set for yourself. Why not give "free-range" coffee making a go for a while and see how it fares against your usual routine.

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    • #17
      Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

      Lots of good information in this thread. Each to their own in regards to what works best for them.
      No matter what method is used, the general consensus seems to be consistancy.
      Personally I never weigh anything and keep all else consitant only varying the grind.
      I acheive this by slightly overfilling the basket then level it off with my finger or even better use a ruler or ice cream stick.
      I am not concerned about the volume that goes into the basket, just care about having coffee level with the top of the basket each time.
      Tamp with a consistant pressure which already gives an idea of my grind by how much it compresses. If it compresses a lot, probably too fine.
      Pull the shot & aim to extract in 20-30 seconds.
      If necessary I make adjustments to the grind only but consistanlty fill the basket level to the top & apply the same tamp pressure each time.

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      • #18
        Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

        Cutting to the chase.

        Grog. Learn your new grinder. Your original question clearly indicates you are underfilling the filter and in order to compensate for the resulting fast rate of flow, you are grinding too fine.

        The fix has already been explained, at length.

        Muppet. Your technique is a very good place for Grog to start from, but only if he understands that he has to work backwards from the settled tamped dose in the filter, to the right level, to get the correct grind.

        Wino. Words very well said.

        Bennett. Yeah young Scottie has annunciated in his "how to videos", the actual, in use, conventional wisdom that others of us have been teaching for years.

        Trensky and cjn. Appreciate the support.

        Fiorello. Do you realise that you wrote "...I am not concerned about the volume that goes into the basket...", yet you spent the rest of your post explaining how you are ! 

        Galumay. I do this for a living and run a very successful coffee roastery, barista training school, equipment import, sales and service business.

        My understanding of your use of the terms "conventional wisdom" and "science" is they are a contradiction in terms.....how can a lot of stuff written up in the www by interested but none the less non professional  (ie not of the coffee industry not to mention that many of them are anonymous) coffee hobbyists be described as "wisdom" and "science"? A bunch of people trying to reinvent the wheel over the last 10 years from the relative safety of their keyboards, over analysing stuff through endless discussion and making something difficult and overly technical that should instead be both a pleasure and relatively simple, does not really to my mind constistute "wisdom" although it may well be (misguided) "science".

        For the rest of it, the valuable professional time I spent writing up a complimentary training session here was for the benefit of Grog, not to while away the time arguing academics for the sake of it. I hate seeing stuff made harder than it needs to be particularly when its supposed to be for enjoyment.

        Hope that helps, and when you are next in the Canberra area, you should come visit and see what real life coffee business is all about 

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        • #19
          Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

          Thanks Fresh/All

          Wife and I had a great coffee this morning, same beans with a revised approach. Yes too little in the puck was the problem.

          Ive actually found that grinding courser is actually filling the puck more effectively (complete opposite experience compared to the rocky).

          I think its due to the airyness of the mini-e doser process - finer the grind the taller it stands and the higher it raises but with a massive tamp as a result.

          Im not sure im at the same level i left the rocky at yet, but then I had had that for 6 months and worked out a process which produced coffee i liked.

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          • #20
            Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

            Originally posted by 5E6B7072767C586D70781F0 link=1337251224/18#18 date=1337388817
            Thanks Fresh/All

            Wife and I had a great coffee this morning, same beans with a revised approach. Yes too little in the puck was the problem..................finer the grind the taller it stands and the higher it raises but with a massive tamp as a result........
            Glad you are working it out 

            Try dosing the filter in two separate operations instead of one.

            ie.....use the grinder on manual instead of timed (initially at least). Grind out into the filter until its somewhere approaching full. Stop and remove the group handle from the fork. Settle the grinds down. Refit the group handle into the fork and restart the grinding process. Fill to over the top of the filter (but not as far as when you do it in one go). Remove and settle again. Now wipe off the excess grinds so the grinds are level with the absolute top of the filter. Now tamp down.

            Keep your technique consistent as possible.

            There is more to this, but one thing at a time is sufficient to save time as well as possible confusion.....

            Enjoy.

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            • #21
              Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

              Originally posted by 506473657E49557970707373160 link=1337251224/17#17 date=1337387850
              Fiorello. Do you realise that you wrote "...I am not concerned about the volume that goes into the basket...", yet you spent the rest of your post explaining how you are ! 
              What Im trying to say is Im not concerned about the amount that goes in (which some people measure by weight), only concerned about having it level with the rim of the basket.
              My reasoning which may or may not be valid is you would get more coffee in the basket for finer grind and less coffee in for corser grinds.

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              • #22
                Re: New grinder any my routines gone awol...

                Originally posted by 2E2F79717F7A480 link=1337251224/20#20 date=1337398831
                My reasoning which may or may not be valid is you would get more coffee in the basket for finer grind and less coffee in for corser grinds.
                Within the margins of underdose and overdose, its about setting your grind size based on your dose strategy. Some may try to complicate that, but its the bottom line.

                Experimenting with dose strategy according to type and age of coffee will give a spectrum of coffee chemistry. Working out how and why is part of the learning curve.

                When you revert to science only, you lose a whole heap of potential outcomes- some of which may well be way better than the results of those who dictate that a +/- 0.x gram dose is the only "correct" way and that the rest of us are heathens.

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