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Comparing the Mazzer Mini and Baratza Preciso

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  • #31
    Wading into the discussion here.

    I've convinced a few friends to get a Preciso, many were skeptical because of it's price assuming it's of lesser quality than the Mazzer, got to love price fallacy arguments.

    There was one problem with a Preciso, a friend broke the fine grind retention collar of, the C shaped plastic collar than the fine grind adjustment clicks onto to, we have super-glued it back on and it's working fine, but it's worth mentioning.

    Secondly getting portafilters into the Preciso isn't the easiest, some are a little bit to wide, and distribution into isn't the best and requires a bit of readjustment with a finger or implement.

    Having got those two cons out of the way, I am incredibly impressed with this grinder, and have to say its the best home grinder i have had the pleasure of using.

    In fact, a friend was so convinced of its quality he took it to his cafe and ran it against a Robur, doing blind tastings (I have run it against a BNZ conical at the shop i work at) and we couldn't pick the different grinders. Think of that what you will but if you can't discern the shots between a Robur or a BNZ against a Preciso its a pretty good endorsement. Maybe a better palate could, but when adding 6 ounces of a milk, i doubt anyone could.

    Another huge tick for the Preciso is grind retention, its about 0.5 of a gram. Which is marvelous, it means less wasted coffee, no purging every morning to get that 3-4g out to have fresh grinds, and for precise dosing it means that what you put in is pretty close to what you get out. It also doesn't popcorn much, meaning its viable to put 22g of coffee in and run it through and not suffer coarser grinds at the end, Mazzers on the otherhand popcorn quite badly.

    Pro number 3 is the adjustment, it makes filter to espresso a dream, really the only home grinder i can think of that makes it easy to switch without wasting coffee. Now for a lot of people they only make espresso, but they have that covered with the fine adjustment collar.

    So where does this leave the Mazzer? A distant second place in my book. For a start i would never recommend or get a Mazzer Mini doser, to much wastage, doser is badly designed, its just not for home use. Leaving the Mazzer Mini-E, thats $1k worth of grinder, and it can't do as much as the Preciso, and is slower and suffers from worse grind retention, and switching from Filter to Espresso is tiresome and tedious.

    The Mazzer looks nicer, and has an italian heritage behind it, and a lot of people that have a vested interest in selling them on this forum, but in my opinion, it isn't a suitable home grinder, and the Preciso wipes the floor with it in almost every way.

    Disclaimer, i have worked with a Mazzer mini in a commercial setting, and briefly had one at home, I don't own a Preciso but have used friends fairly extensively as i plan on buying one soon.

    TLDR: Preciso: a $300 grinder that outperforms an $800 Mazzer for home usage.

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    • #32
      Thanks Autti, you pretty much nailed everything that I've been experiencing and writing in a concise manner.

      Comment


      • #33
        Comparing the Mazzer Mini and Baratza Preciso

        Originally posted by JamesM View Post
        WenV,

        Welcome to CS, I see you are quite new here!

        For your requirements, I gotta say I think the Preciso is a good fit. The Preciso really excels for manual brew methods thanks to the low retention of grinds, speed, and great grind consistency at coarser settings. Plus, when you resurrect your Gaggia, you'll have easy stepped adjustments for spro and filter.

        The Breville smart grinder is still an excellent home grinder (from what I've read and heard, I don't own one). It's a bit fancier looking, has all kinds of digital magic built in, however I don't believe the burr quality matches the Baratza.

        If you are able to actually try different units, I would recommend that. Usually domestic grinders for home use are harder to 'try' because not many places have them avail for demo.

        Something else to consider, of course, is support from the retailer or manufacturer. I know that Baratza have outstanding customer service, as do the Australian distributors (5Senses)

        I'm really enjoying the result in the cup from the Preciso with all brewing methods. I still plan to do some more comparo's with my other grinders, but at this stage, it's a real treat

        Cheers
        Thanks, James, for your welcome and detailed response. I totally agree with your assessment of the Precisio and the after sales support of Baratza. I have more or less decided on it for a purchase in 2013.

        I have read mixed reviews on the Breville Smart Grinder, mainly with the fact that shims modification is required. Sounds like too much work for me

        Btw, do you find the Precisio easier to clean and maintain?

        Best,
        WV

        Comment


        • #34
          Sigh.... Guys...people read this stuff and many (misguided souls that they are) believe what they read.

          This is purely rhetorical but how can anyone "agree" with James's assessement of the Preciso if they dont have one yet, and therefore how can they know anything about the after sales support of "Baratza" in the context of this grinder?

          I dont work for nor sell any brevile products and dont have an opinion on the grinder either way, but if the "mixed reviews" of the smart grinder are a result of people saying they needed to fit shims, and we now apparently hear round about that that was "then" (in terms of the early release of the model) and this is "now" where the shims problem has apparently been rectified, does this not mean that the "mixed reviews" are in the current situation rendered null and void or inapplicable or nonsence?

          I am not a betting man but I will bet a box of matches (what else do you play pontoon with?) that if someone from this forum did a one on one comparison similar to what James did above (with the Preciso and the Mazzer), that they would be hard pressed to find any discernible difference in the quality of coffees produced between the Preciso and the Smart over the std range of grinds (plunger / filter / espresso). That would bring any ultimate difference to my mind, down to a difference in features and in particular, the long term reliability of both (probably unknown in both cases at this stage), comparability in the necessity or frequency of cleaning out the grinding chamber, longevity of the electronics in the smart VS the simplicity of the control in the preciso, and the price of each VS the level of other features and extras thrown in or not (eg how well the fork for the group handle works in both grinders, does it come as std in one but is an option at extra cost in the other etc etc etc).

          Comparisons of so called "grind consistency" should probably be left to those that have scientific instruments that can prove results in a laboratory, instead of people throwing random small samples of grinds into the palm of their hands then making irrelevant statements (and of course the real proof is in the comparison in the cup between the two grinders & not in the palm of someone's hand).

          Of course people that simply have an aversion to something with a dept store brand name on (like me) should just say so and then we know what they would probably buy if given the choice of the two, otherwise I would urge people to make logical and realistic observations when comparing items of equipment (as you did above for the most part James, but what does " I don't believe the burr quality matches the Baratza" mean, or how can we compare, if in a one on one comparo its likely no one would be able to spot the diff?).

          Hope that helps.
          Attilio
          very first CS site sponsor
          Last edited by Fresh_Coffee; 23 December 2012, 01:15 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
            This is purely rhetorical but how can anyone "agree" with James's assessement of the Preciso if they dont have one yet, and therefore how can they know anything about the after sales support of "Baratza" in the context of this grinder?
            Well i just experienced the after sales support, the aforementioned grinder that i was playing with that broke the plastic fine grind collar, we called 5Senses (dirty word here) and they said to come down, so we did with little grinder in tow, they replaced it right there and we went home with a nice new one

            If that isn't an endorsement of after sales support i don't know what is.

            Comparisons of so called "grind consistency" should probably be left to those that have scientific instruments that can prove results in a laboratory, instead of people throwing random small samples of grinds into the palm of their hands then making irrelevant statements (and of course the real proof is in the comparison in the cup between the two grinders & not in the palm of someone's hand).
            For those interested in talking about the precisio and not derailing the thread with Breville Smart Grinder pushing, the guys at Uber have the grind profiles of all the Baratza's
            with the Precisio looking like this:

            availble here: MARCO ÜBER PROJECT» Blog Archive » GRIND PROFILES: BARATZA

            I can't find relevant grind profiles on Mini, or other grinders for that matter.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Autti View Post
              I can't find relevant grind profiles on Mini, or other grinders for that matter.
              Google 'Titan grinder project grind particle size analysis" for info on some other grinders if you're interested in this
              side of things. Has it's merit for the boffins amongst us but you can still pick a grinder by what it delivers in the cup via the quality of the pour,
              how consistent the results are and the repeatability and ease of the dose and tamp.

              Oh yeah and how good it looks or how shiny it is!! ;-D

              Comment


              • #37
                [QUOTE=Autti;487127]Well i just experienced the after sales support, the aforementioned grinder that i was playing with that broke the plastic fine grind collar, we called 5Senses (dirty word here) and they said to come down, so we did with little grinder in tow, they replaced it right there and we went home with a nice new one .............If that isn't an endorsement of after sales support i don't know what is.
                For those interested in talking about the precisio and not derailing the thread with Breville Smart Grinder pushing, the guys at Uber have the grind profiles of all the Baratza's with the Precisio looking like this.........QUOTE]

                Well, if that is directed at me, I think you've misunderstood, and therefore in point form wrt your post:

                Not disputing whatever you have experienced and if it was good, that is what it should be and I am glad that's what you experienced. The reference was wrt people who "agree" or if you like, appear to "endorse" what others write about their experiences with the equipment, but who themselves dont actually have the equipment or experience with it to be able to do that (agree/endorse....).

                I dont know anything about 5 Senses being a dirty word here and made no such reference direct or INDIRECT. In fact the refrence made by someone else that I responded to, was for "Baratza" whatever that means.

                I dont understand what is meant by the reference to "derailing the thread" and refer you to read my post again and check what it was directed at. I hope you dont consider it to be "derailing", to point out that people who have no apparent experience with a piece of equipment, shouldnt be endorsing what other people say about it, nor "piggybacking" it over someone elses product that they also have no experience with.

                I thought it was made clear enough that I am not pushing the smart grinder (see 2 references to that in my previous post) and please refer to the previous point.

                Very good of you to dig up a scientific analisis of "grind profiles" of the preciso. Per Se it trumps hands down the usual practice of commentators throwing a few grinds on the palm of their hand and marvelling at how consistent it looks (have a look in ewe choob, even coffee equikment traders that ought to know better are doinit). But it is still irrelevant as its what's in the cup that counts in someone's home, and in the context of the comparisons that people will make in these parts, its what's in the cup in a one on one grinder by grinder comparison that counts...and then it still wont count, if we are not comparing apples with apples, and it really isnt helpful to compare apparent grind consistency from a home use grinder to a small cafe design grinder (the "mini") because the design briefs from the manufacturers are not the same, and it is not the manufacturer's problem if a bunch of home / retail end clients want to buy small commercial grinders like the MM and play with them at home. If clients want to do that, they have to accept that what they get is what they get is what they get including learning to deal with the doser and the clutched grind adjuster which is not designed for making fine changes and all that involves.


                Hope that helps.
                Last edited by Fresh_Coffee; 23 December 2012, 02:19 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                  Google 'Titan grinder project grind particle size analysis" for info on some other grinders if you're interested in this
                  side of things. Has it's merit for the boffins amongst us but you can still pick a grinder by what it delivers in the cup via the quality of the pour,
                  how consistent the results are and the repeatability and ease of the dose and tamp.

                  Oh yeah and how good it looks or how shiny it is!! ;-D
                  Yeah i've read the Titan grinder project before, but they don't have analysis on the Mini, i couldn't find a BSG either on the web.

                  Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
                  Very good of you to dig up a scientific analisis of "grind profiles" of the preciso. Per Se it trumps hands down the usual practice of commentators throwing a few grinds on their hand and marvelling at how consistent it looks. But it is still irrelevant as its what's in the cup that counts in someone's home, and in the context of the comparisons that people will make in these parts, its what's in the cup in a one on one grinder by grinder comparison that counts...and then it still wont count, if we are not comparing apples with apples, and it really isnt helpful to compare apparent grind consistency from a home use grinder to a small cafe design grinder because the design briefs from the manufacturers are not the same, and it is not their problem if a bunch of retail coffee heads want to buy small commercial grinders like the MM and play with them at home. If clients want to do that, they have to get what they get what they get including learning to deal with the doser and all that involves.

                  Hope that helps.
                  Ha, thats hilarious. You complain that none of this is "scientific" so i dig up data, and now its irrelevant anyway. Moving the goal posts?

                  Now were not allowed to compare the grind consistency between the Preciso and a Mini because they have different design briefs?

                  We are comparing apples to apples, we are comparing two grinders that do exactly the same thing, grind coffee, in a home environment. You have added absolutely nothing positive to the discussion at all, you have just waded in and told us that we are being "unscientific" and we should be comparing it the BSG. Then some rambling about how the Mazzer is for small commerical, and no points in the affirmative or negative, just the retort of apples to apples. It reeks of bitterness that people are endorsing a grinder you don't sell.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Some more particle size analysis, including mini-e, here: :-)

                    Espresso Passione

                    Easy, just use google!
                    Last edited by chokkidog; 23 December 2012, 05:11 PM. Reason: punctuation, syntax

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Autti View Post
                      ....Ha, thats hilarious. You complain that none of this is "scientific" so i dig up data, and now its irrelevant anyway. Moving the goal posts?

                      ...... It reeks of bitterness that people are endorsing a grinder you don't sell.
                      Wrong and wrong!

                      a) I'd already said above that what is important is what's in the cup. I havent wavered. The written discussion or for that matter off hand comments on so called "grind consistency" in this context is frankly, silly, because they are both on the word of happy owners here pretty good grinders, and I've never said anything to the contrary.

                      b) Really? Take a look at my posts in these threads here:
                      http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...a-preciso.html and here:
                      http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...der-400-a.html

                      Both treated quite fairly I think.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Cant comment on the Baratza as I have never used one, however have been using a Mazzer Mini, home use, for a couple of years, sure it has idiosyncrasies, like other grinders once you've used it for a while you learn to work with them, I'm happy with mine and won't be changing it any time in the foreseeable future.
                        Having said that, the Baratza sounds like a very capable grinder and at half the price of the Mazzer, had they been around when I bought the Mini I may well have bought one.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Autti View Post
                          Yeah i've read the Titan grinder project before..
                          FWIW, some of the highest quality rubbish I have ever seen on the coffee 'net.

                          I'll leave it to you guys to argue it out, but I'm firmly in the don't give a toss what the (often poorly executed) science says. I'll take what's in the cup combined with usability every day over boring volumes of waffle!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                            FWIW, some of the highest quality rubbish I have ever seen on the coffee 'net.
                            I completely agree with that. The fact that none (iirc) of the tastings were blind is just hilarious. They state their position at the start that the Robur is the "best" and then compare to everything else and really just confirm their initial opinion via no double blind procedure. It's confirmation bias to a T.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                              FWIW, some of the highest quality rubbish I have ever seen on the coffee 'net.

                              I'll leave it to you guys to argue it out, but I'm firmly in the don't give a toss what the (often poorly executed) science says. I'll take what's in the cup combined with usability every day over boring volumes of waffle!
                              Couldn't agree more! It was the cause of one of my longest groans, ever.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Comparing the Mazzer Mini and Baratza Preciso

                                Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post

                                This is purely rhetorical but how can anyone "agree" with James's assessement of the Preciso if they dont have one yet, and therefore how can they know anything about the after sales support of "Baratza" in the context of this grinder?

                                I dont work for nor sell any brevile products and dont have an opinion on the grinder either way, but if the "mixed reviews" of the smart grinder are a result of people saying they needed to fit shims, and we now apparently hear round about that that was "then" (in terms of the early release of the model) and this is "now" where the shims problem has apparently been rectified, does this not mean that the "mixed reviews" are in the current situation rendered null and void or inapplicable or nonsence?...

                                Hope that helps.
                                Attilio
                                very first CS site sponsor
                                Like I said initially, I'm new to the coffee scene and I'm only looking for other people's experience of the Preciso or even the Smart Grinder before I make a purchase. There's no way for me to make comparisons except through my research on the Internet as I don't know anyone in my circle of friends or family that owns either grinder.

                                As for the comment that one can't agree with James' assessment of the Preciso without direct experience of it, I find it a fundamentally flawed argument. Mainly due to the fact that my reading of other's direct experience of the Preciso is sumilarly to James'. Hence, I can agree on that.

                                In regards to the Smart Grinder, I haven't read that Breville has fixed the problem of needing extra shims. Kindly point me to the link as I am interested to learn more.

                                With all due respect, Attilo, if your intention is to educate new people like myself to understand coffee and coffee equipment better, your starting statement came across as critical and not helpful. Just my 2c...

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