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Breville BCG450 v Sunbeam EM480/490 v Other?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
    It is hard to equate the two - in both cases of pro machines I was not allowed to change the grind - it was 'checked' once a month when the providers came and serviced the machine.
    Red flag!

    It has not really explained why people with what are apparently reasonable skills, fail to get consistently good to great results after spending thousands on hardware.
    What may well be apparent to some, may also present glaring deficiencies to others! Nevertheless, if those deficiencies are not identified, they don't count.

    I mentioned earlier that I am happy to run a comparison on our bench for any owner of these less expensive grinders- same machine, same coffee and as close as the grinder will allow me to replicate same pour. Journeyman, if you are in Melbourne, you're welcome to make a time to swing by.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
      It is hard to equate the two - in both cases of pro machines I was not allowed to change the grind - it was 'checked' once a month when the providers came and serviced the machine.
      QED. So you are comparing the Sunbeam to the use of a high end machine, where that use was constrained by an inability to change the grind (and who knows what else....beans from the 'big V'?).

      And if you have a thorough browse through the forum, you'll go crazy the number of times you'll see people recommend a Silvia / Rocky combo (or maybe diff grinder), and several times those very advocates are site sponsors...hardly a perspective that says that you have to spend $1500 or more on machines to get a good coffee. Granted, there will always be cases where the OP says 'I've got $500 max to spend', and others will respond 'if you could just stretch that to $2k'.....but that is hardly standard practice.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
        It is hard to equate the two - in both cases of pro machines I was not allowed to change the grind - it was 'checked' once a month when the providers came and serviced the machine.
        You say this...

        It has not really explained why people with what are apparently reasonable skills, fail to get consistently good to great results after spending thousands on hardware.
        and you really have to ask this?

        as for said place on faraday st... they're very hipster and hipster coffee may not be to your taste.

        it is possible, with good equipment and technique, to produce consistent, technically flawless coffee. it is impossible to produce coffee that everybody agrees is perfect.

        what sort of coffee do you drink?

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        • #19
          Hey Chris, we are planning to be in Melb early April. I am happy to bring in my machine and learn. I don't have a big budget for upgrades but if I have a reason I can work on it... Do I just check your location in the Sponsors thread?

          EDIT: You are in Northcote? When we have a firm date for our travel (looking at somewhere between April 2nd to 6th - will know more next couple of days) I will PM with a request for some time. Thanks for the offer.

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          • #20
            @BO'S - I do realise the problems with being unable to alter the grind. In the end the inability to change things to improve the coffee I was producing was why I turned down the offer of work. But I have a red wine drinker's palate - I do tend to trust my taste buds and nose,. I have been comparing the Sunbeam output to the search across decades to find good coffee. I have 3 places in mind that provided a smooth, richly flavoured macchiato on a regular basis.

            I was gobsmacked at how easily I produced nice coffee with my purchase - having spent time on here and considering what I paid, I was expecting at best I would improve on Moccona instant but still be heading down the street for my long strong machs...

            So I asked, in my apparently inimitable fashion that gets people's hackles up, about the situation.

            @Hildy - you may be right - it would fit that the Faraday st place doesn't let their baristas change grind. To be honest I hadn't made that connection - to me they were professionals who would adjust their equipment to match the day, beans and demands of the crowd. It was an assumption. My bad.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
              @Hildy - you may be right - it would fit that the Faraday st place doesn't let their baristas change grind. To be honest I hadn't made that connection - to me they were professionals who would adjust their equipment to match the day, beans and demands of the crowd. It was an assumption. My bad.
              I didn't say that.

              Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
              I was gobsmacked at how easily I produced nice coffee with my purchase - having spent time on here and considering what I paid, I was expecting at best I would improve on Moccona instant but still be heading down the street for my long strong machs...
              you've just revealed your lack of taste. (-:

              (asking for a long strong mach is asking for trouble - you're going to get rubbish 99% of the time. to make it properly you will have to change basket and change grind - and what cafe has the time or propensity to do that?)

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              • #22
                basket = PF? Or is it to do with roasting?

                That might explain why I have such a problem getting a good coffee. I always figured a Long Strong Mach was just an extra shot in a macchiato. T'Hooft here in Bendigo is one of the few places where they suggested I change beans to get my coffee. It also offers a reason why some of the old Italian places would give me my LS M in a picco cup...

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                • #23
                  Will someone pass the popcorn.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                    Will someone pass the popcorn.
                    I don't know whether to laugh or cry... but please pass the popcorn.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
                      basket = PF? Or is it to do with roasting?
                      Are you sure you don't want to do some barista training? knowing what the bits of your machine are called is useful when talking to other people, or, for example, when asking for help disassembling grinders.

                      That might explain why I have such a problem getting a good coffee. I always figured a Long Strong Mach was just an extra shot in a macchiato. T'Hooft here in Bendigo is one of the few places where they suggested I change beans to get my coffee. It also offers a reason why some of the old Italian places would give me my LS M in a picco cup...
                      strong means different things to different people, and long means different things to different people. if what you wanted was an extra shot in a macchiato, that's what you should have asked for.

                      if i was to make a long strong mach, I would change the 15gm basket to an 18gm or 20gm and grind coarser, with an aim to get maybe 100ml through it before blonding. i would then throw it away and make a ristretto to drink.

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                      • #26
                        The course I did was a while back. I asked about basket to make sure I was thinking of the right thing. Thanks for the explanation. *grins* I take it you're not a mach drinker?

                        Seeing I am apparently providing the entertainment have some on me...

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                        • #27
                          Thanks All for your responses. Clearly there are many different views and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond.

                          Originally posted by Hildy View Post
                          to the OP: why did you buy a $1700 machine and budget $200 for the grinder?
                          The original intent was to buy ground coffee until we could justify a grinder. The intent then changed to maybe buying a reasonable consumer grinder. The appearance of the Breville meant I need to decide on what to do now ... a bit earlier than planned.


                          I'll update the thread when I've made my decision!

                          Cheers,
                          Richard

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
                            *grins* I take it you're not a mach drinker?
                            I'm a mach drinker, I'm just not a lungo drinker. I think it's filthy bitter stuff.

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                            • #29
                              What is lungo?

                              EDIT: Ah, found it - from the 'Is there a FAQ' thread in General Coffee...
                              Originally posted by Yelta
                              I grind 2 or 3 steps coarser than I do for a shot, depending on the age of my beans, load and tamp as normal, start the flow and allow it to run for 30 seconds, when finished it is flowing lighter but nothing like clear/over extracted, what I end up with is approx 90 to 100ml of coffee with excellent viscosity/mouth feel, lots of flavour with no hint of bitterness or acidity and great crema, technically not a long black, most certainly not a shot but most definitely better than any cremaless full cup of long black (more often than not swill) I've ever had in a cafe.
                              That sounds what I'd like, with just the macchiato hint of milk in it. Something to practice.

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                              • #30
                                you can see, though, how to do it properly would take too much effort in a cafe and you're likely to just get swill if you ask for it from the wrong sort of place.

                                anyhow, if i'm going to drink something that dilute i'm going to aeropress it.

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