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Looking for something similar to Baratza Preciso or maybe Vario

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  • Looking for something similar to Baratza Preciso or maybe Vario

    I'm looking for something similar to Baratza Preciso or (maybe Vario? But its so darn expensive).
    I'm concerned about the longevity and quality issues.
    Any advice?

    Cheers

  • #2
    Similar?.... like a Breville Smart Grinder?

    Comment


    • #3
      which elements of the vario are you interested in? when you ask for similar on the whole okitoki is right... the smart grinder would tick most boxes. did you want a stepped grinder with many fine tuning adjustments? similar burr set? similar footprint? similar grind quality?
      its hard to point you in any direction with what you've asked. =p a pre-loved vario or smart grinder would be all i can say.

      if you're looking for something cheap though i'd look for something second hand. most grinders below the 300 mark dont have very good reviews on them...
      if you cant wait and want something now i'd suggest looking at the smart grinder or sunbeam em480. they perform pretty well (my 480 has seen 4 years of use now and still running well). i havent used/read much about the preciso or encore so cant say much about them.
      the rocky is another pretty good option though they seem to have many mixed opinions about longevity and performance.
      home barista seems to have pretty good reviews on the macap (going a little over budget here now..) and compak grinders.

      many grinders out there... and they're all different in their own rights. hope this helps.

      just my 2 cents

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ritsute View Post
        I'm looking for something similar to Baratza Preciso or (maybe Vario? But its so darn expensive).
        I'm concerned about the longevity and quality issues. Any advice? Cheers
        I have only used a couple of grinders, so can't offer an alternative other than the Sunbeam EM0480 already mentioned above. They are not bad value for the price, but they have fairly big adjustment steps, and tend to retain quite a lot of ground coffee.

        You are right to be concerned about the quality and longevity of the Baratza's. They are a good grinder in some respects, but have some rather flimsy plastic parts.

        But much worse is that the local agent is hopeless. It seems that they don't know much about the product, so when I needed advice on how to set the internal adjustments, I had to find it myself on the manufacturers web site. They didn't know, or couldn't be bothered to tell me.

        When I broke the burr holder in my preciso , I sent them several emails over a two week period, and have not received a single reply. It must now be close to a month since I first tried to contact them.

        I have since ordered the part direct from Baratza USA and it seems likely that I will get it before I hear from the dealer I bought it from.

        It's a real shame, because with a couple of improvements, and a decent importer, the preciso could be a great little grinder.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for all the input. I would say the grind quality of preciso is what i'm after. i am currently using em0480. Doesnt go too well with a VST :x
          How does the Breville Smart Grinder compare to Preciso?

          Comment


          • #6
            I guess it depends on the espresso machine you are using on... the SG seems to be well received by some people here, but it just didnt work for me when I had the Silvia.... I did get to borrow a preciso from a fellow member here, and I found that it was grinding well enough for my Silvia to pull good shots....

            You can occasionally find a Rocky grinder for less than $300 second hand...

            or can you consider going slightly bigger like a Mazzer mini, Macaps, or the K3?

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm using a heavily modified Gaggia.
              I was thinking going for K3 but reading around a lil seems to suggest that Preciso is better. They should seriously do something about the quality of it.
              Quite lost at this moment.

              And going off topic, its interesting when people say machine affect the shot. I would think that there's only 3 factors: pressure, temperature consistency and showerhead height

              Comment


              • #8
                I know FiveSenses were having in issue with on of their mailboxes/web form submissions which has since been rectified.

                To be fair, I don't know how whether it's reasonable to complain about the "contactability" of a place if you haven't followed up with a phone-call...

                As for the Preciso, I'm one of its biggest critics, having had a problematic example which ended up being returned.

                That said, I may end up putting my K-6 (the replacement) up for sale and if it goes I'll be replacing it with another Preciso and just ordering a pack of spare parts. IMO the ergos and grind quality can't be beat for home use (at least, I've only had better coffee at a small handful of specialty cafes).

                I just can't get coffee as good as I could with the Preciso; I suspect it may have to do with grind retention but I'll try it with a big pack of known good commercially-roasted beans in case my roasting's just gone to pot.

                The K3 might be a good option but I've not tasted the coffee from it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                  I know FiveSenses were having in issue with on of their mailboxes/web form submissions which has since been rectified.

                  To be fair, I don't know how whether it's reasonable to complain about the "contactability" of a place if you haven't followed up with a phone-call...

                  As for the Preciso, I'm one of its biggest critics, having had a problematic example which ended up being returned.

                  That said, I may end up putting my K-6 (the replacement) up for sale and if it goes I'll be replacing it with another Preciso and just ordering a pack of spare parts. IMO the ergos and grind quality can't be beat for home use (at least, I've only had better coffee at a small handful of specialty cafes).

                  I just can't get coffee as good as I could with the Preciso; I suspect it may have to do with grind retention but I'll try it with a big pack of known good commercially-roasted beans in case my roasting's just gone to pot.

                  The K3 might be a good option but I've not tasted the coffee from it.
                  What was the problem you had with your Preciso?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Broken burr collar; no foreign objects. It's a $4 part. A few weeks after it was replaced (FiveSenses sent me a complete upper burr) it suddenly started grinding really coarse. Looked like there was some unusual play in the adjustment ring assembly. I didn't investigate too closely; I figured it was time to date other grinders

                    There are many happy Preciso owners and you can bet you'll hear about EVERY bad one out there, but I do think Baratza would be well served to fix the structural integrity of a number of their plastic parts.

                    I would be happy to recommend it to someone comfortable able to tinker if required, because besides that it is a simply fantastic grinder. Small footprint, next to no grind retention and excellent grind quality.

                    For someone who blanches at the thought of taking the case off I'd suggest another product.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                      I would be happy to recommend it to someone comfortable able to tinker if required, because besides that it is a simply fantastic grinder.
                      Just what i needed. Where did you get your parts from anyways?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        " That said, I may end up putting my K-6 (the replacement) up for sale and if it goes I'll be replacing it with another Preciso and just ordering a pack of spare parts".


                        Hi Dragunov21,

                        I still have both the preciso and a K6 and get excellent coffee from both,
                        Is your burr set sharp in the K6 ? I replaced mine and had improvement in grind speed and the cup, aprox $50 from coffeeparts, maybe try that before you give up on it,

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Five senses provided them to me under warranty. The burr collars can be had from baratza for four bucks but shopping is fifteen so I'd suggest getting a handful just in case or trying eBay.

                          For anything bigger I'd suggest talking it up with five senses (assuming you purchase from them, I've heard tell of another mob in Perth who sell them too). Phone them, that way there can be no misunderstandings.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ritsute View Post
                            I'm looking for something similar to Baratza Preciso or (maybe Vario? But its so darn expensive).
                            I'm concerned about the longevity and quality issues.
                            Any advice?

                            Cheers
                            Having held both Baratza & Mahlkonig Vario's in my hand, the Mahlkonig is actually around 500g heavier "in the hand", although they appear identical. Minimum grind retention, ceramic burrs which outlast most commercial grinders plus damn near infinite grind adjustment means there is literally no competition for the home user for the Vario (approx $650 - 680 from Sydney). The low burr speed also means the coffee comes out "relatively cool" compared to most other grinders. The Preciso is a comparative toy for two reasons: much lower burr life & a fairly standard amount of grind retention.

                            They are officially sold in Australia as Mahlkonig / Mahlkoenig (seen both spellings, same company) who are actually the manufacturers. Interestingly, the Mahlkonig commercial grinder I am most familiar with also has significantly lower grind retention compared to any other commercial grinder I have ever seen / played with. It look like a giant horizontal drill motor and can actually grind directly into a portafilter (p/f). After nearly ten heavy use years and two sets of burrs it still does a perfect espresso grind. Impressive piece of kit.

                            Why is grind retention important? What about grind particle consistency?
                            1) Grounds oxidise in 15 minutes to the point that I do not drink the results.
                            2) Look up the numerous CS posts on guys who do arcane things like weigh the exact amount of beans into the hopper of their freshly cleaned "brand X" grinder and then put the whole batch through to get the exact amount of desired coffee. Two issues: The amount of retention differs radically amongst differing roasts, batches, humidity etc etc etc, so what they get into the cup is unlikely to be consistent in that sense even when using the same grinder. Secondly, most domestic and low end commercial grinders actually use the weight of the beans to load the feeder mechanism. Unless you add a weight above the beans, the feed is massively inconsistent, which leads to more variations in the particle size. Don't take my word for it, try it four times and listen to the sounds & time the process. Then weigh both what came out and what is retained and examine the particle size. Then, for a comparison, fully load the same hopper and run one lot through and see how it compares. Scary.
                            3) As a home user, it is desirable to be able to get a good first cup, and at least a reasonable cup no 4. No commercial grinder can do that without a major clean before cup 1 unless you push at least one espresso shot of coffee through the thing first. Then the second grind will be noticeably warmer to the touch, which is another no no.
                            4) Grinding in any other way except direct into the p/f increases the amount of time for oxidation to take place. Dosers / trays are therefore another no no for a committed CS home user.

                            What about the grind adjustment?
                            The macro / micro adjustment idea is nothing short of brilliant. Whilst altering grinds on a stepless is massively time consuming and frustrating, the Vario takes it in it's stride. I find differing humidity and temperatures often need the micro adjustment. FWIW, I now use my old grinder for plunger coffee, as it takes the Vario about 14g (i.e. a double) to fully settle on such a massive change from espresso to plunger (or back). Within the espresso range, it is virtually instant.

                            Why do people break Baratza's? The three Precisos I have seen have all damaged / broken the adjusters by trying to alter the grind finer whilst the grinder is not running. RTFM, or at least understand the beast before you use it. FWIW, there is an adjuster shim kit for broken / wandering lever Precisos to fix them, however I have not seen anyone who managed to do the same to a Vario (the manual has exactly the same instructions, so perhaps the higher expense gets people to actually read them).

                            Other than that, the Mahlkonig Vario is at least as strong as anything else I have seen on the market.

                            Hope this helps.

                            TampIt

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ritsute View Post
                              Thanks for all the input. I would say the grind quality of preciso is what i'm after. i am currently using em0480. Doesnt go too well with a VST :x
                              How does the Breville Smart Grinder compare to Preciso?
                              There are actually two EM480's (see Journeyman's "my new machine" thread for a lot more details on that). The newer 480 holds it's own to most low end commercial grinders and is reliable (I actually have two of them, although the Vario has relegated one to plunger grinds only). The older 480 needs a shim kit to work properly, and then it is almost (but not quite) as good as the newer ones (four or five friends have done this mod – it works). As I do not have an older style 480, no idea how reliable a shimmed one really is.

                              From first hand experience the VST baskets work well with a correctly set up 480 / 6910 as long as you know what you are doing. A naked p/f helps a lot...

                              The Breville smart grinder I tested was poorer for espresso than my original 480 by a quite a margin, so I bought a second 480. Perhaps it was a dud? Other CS's have had good results. FYI, my other grinder is a Bo-ema RR45 commercial which, like most commercial grinders, is not really suitable for home use (or designed for it for that matter). I would not consider going from a 480 to a Breville smart grinder as an upgrade.

                              The Vario massively outperforms the 480 in three areas - lack of grind retention, speed of grind (irrelevant to me) and consistency of particle size for espresso. The Preciso is almost identical to the EM480 for espresso use (I hear the sound of rifle bolts) except for speed. For plungers, the Preciso I played with was actually better than both the "non shimmed" newer EM480 & the Vario for particle size. Shimming my newer 480 put them closer, although the Preciso was a distant memory by then.

                              FWIW, I would either shim your 480 or bite the bullet on a Vario, I suspect you would be happy with either of them.

                              TampIt

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