Yeah makes sense, using a large conical to grind a light roast for espresso you generally want a really fine grind and much lower dose to get some balance happening, which can often be at the expense of clarity and or " juiciness".
So the EKs mean one can use the uber light filter roasts as espresso with a large dose and with a high flow rate. Less heavier dissolved solids, more sweets , sours, bright acids.
The thing is, develop the beans the right way, just a touch more in the roaster and you can do similar tasting things on large conics and regular flat grinders.
All the numbers can help point one in the right direction if that is the direction one wants to go / taste.
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Adding to an old thread and getting it back to topic..Originally posted by Jonathon View PostNow that we're back on topic, Matt Perger's blog has a very interesting (and long) article comparing the EK43 and Robur, amongst others.
He goes into tremendous detail, it's well worth a read.
The EK43 - Part One - Matt Perger
The "part Two" of MP's tests revealed some interesting data which may help to understand why some prefer the results from the EK43..
The EK43 - Part Two - Matt Perger
Significantly, for any conventionally set extraction .. (50-60 ml from 22 gms dose in 25-30 secs).... the EK43 average particle size is far smaller ( practically half !) than that the Robur,
Mean is the average of the sizes.
Mode is the most frequently occurring size (the peak).
Median is the size that sits right in the middle.
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That's the best analogy I've read in a long time and matches my experience with this type of coffee perfectly, I just didn't have the eloquence to come up with the words.Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post. A bit like a set of quality headphones with the treble dialed up and the bass cut back.
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I don't know how to reconcile it with the fact that Matt Perger's an Australian, and I don't pretend to be an expert on much of anything when it comes to coffee culture, but I suspect this cuts to the heart of it.Originally posted by Steve82 View PostNot saying one is better than the other, all comes down to personal preference, but compare apples with apples. The two styles are worlds apart.
I think I'm starting to "get" the whole 3rd-wave thing, I think, after trying drip/pourover in the US. It's been (to me, in the handful of cafes I've visited) generally weak, thin, tangy and while all the flavours are easily distinguished (if not recognised by my pleb's palatte) I find it hard to enjoy them. A bit like a set of quality headphones with the treble dialed up and the bass cut back. The speciality espresso I've had has often seemed to be an extension of that; similar target flavour, but stronger, and it's something I've not come across in Australia. I've had fruity shots at excellent cafes, but they've tasted like fruity coffee rather than hot juice.
I don't enjoy it, but I think I can understand where it might come from; a fundamentally different idea of what coffee is supposed to taste like.
As far as gospel goes, let's just say I'll take Schomer's. I'll take sweet, smooth and a little bitter any day.
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So, I have had a few of these EK43 lungo uber light roast " espresso". There seems to be a few perger clones running around with stars in their eyes quoting the gospel.
Anyway, very fragrant and sweet on nose = smells much better than it tastes.
Initial fruity / acidic / sourness, that is balanced out quite well by the sweetness from the lengthy extraction. No back palate bitterness, although many would surely describe the upfront underdone notes as bitter.
Body is very thin, verging on what i would call zero in regards to my usual shots at home. This is one of the main things i like about a good espresso, luscious and creamy / syrupy body that coats the inside of the mouth.
Shots were generally pulled super hot and there was a small window where it tasted best, no good as it cools.
While I can appreciate the creativity and effort involved in pushing the envelope / trying something different and happy to discuss processes. I do not enjoy hearing things like " once you have coffee from an EK43, compared to say a Robur, it feels like you have been living in a fog "
I seriously don't think that a well developed roast, pulled a couple of degrees prior to second crack, say around 15mins, then pulling a lovely syrupy shot, is even in the same game as the aforementioned Ek43 shots.
Not saying one is better than the other, all comes down to personal preference, but compare apples with apples. The two styles are worlds apart.
Personally I would rather a slightly lighter roast prepared on my Aeropress. These uber light shots also leave me feeling a touch queasy in the guts. Give me a well developed central just before second crack on a lever every time.
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Interesting discussion.
In the context of the discussion, what does it mean, that someone ground some coffee on an EK 43?....you would need to have the same coffee ground with some other grinder, made on the same group on the same machine by the same operator, in the same sitting, to be able to compare the "performance" of one grinder to the other, to decide what it all means.
And then.....what would it prove? That one grinder may have given the end product one set of characters, while the other gave the same coffee a slightly different set of characters, both of which are probably equally "good" unless one has been deliberately sabotaged by the equipment operator/coffee maker?
And after that, what of individual preference?Last edited by TOK; 11 March 2014, 03:05 PM.
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My wife ordered one at St Ali last weekend. It was definitely ground using the EK 43. It tasted nice, but their SO espresso was nicer.
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I had the 'coffee shot' at St Ali today. It came in a jug, I'd say about 250ml.Originally posted by kwantfm View PostSo this was the "coffee shot" style extraction that Perger performed at WBC? Sounds very interesting. Thanks for the write up.
Very much in the clover/siphon mould, but from their Linea. So can't really be compared to a long black, totally different type of drink.
I didn't see them grinding it, but I'm guessing they used their double header EK43 rather than one of their many Roburs.
It was an interesting enough drink, but not sure it's worth $6.
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[QUOTE=thebookfreak58;525206 It was a 50sec extraction and looking like the WBC video. Total gusher! ...
....It was like the best of an espresso and a filter brew. Smooth mellow acidity from a filter style. With the sharp intense notes associated with espresso. It was very very nice.
...I can't really describe it better than that.[/QUOTE]
So, with a 50sec extraction, was it more than a double shot size ?..maybe like a long black volume ?..
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Yep!Originally posted by kwantfm View PostSo this was the "coffee shot" style extraction that Perger performed at WBC? Sounds very interesting. Thanks for the write up.
Tasted amazing!
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So this was the "coffee shot" style extraction that Perger performed at WBC? Sounds very interesting. Thanks for the write up.Originally posted by thebookfreak58 View PostI had one at Cup Coffee In the 'gabba. It was a SO (sadly can't remember which) and was extracted on their Slayer. It was a 50sec extraction and looking like the WBC video. Total gusher!
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Now that we're back on topic, Matt Perger's blog has a very interesting (and long) article comparing the EK43 and Robur, amongst others.
He goes into tremendous detail, it's well worth a read.
http://mattperger.com/The-EK43-Part-One
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Ah well the thread has disappeared for a while!
I had one at Cup Coffee In the 'gabba. It was a SO (sadly can't remember which) and was extracted on their Slayer. It was a 50sec extraction and looking like the WBC video. Total gusher!
Getting the cup though was quite a treat. Aroma was just like a filter coffee. Sweet and mellow. With love fruitiness. Taste. It was so different to anything I've ever tasted before. I wouldn't say I have a super palate. But it isn't terrible either. It was like the best of an espresso and a filter brew. Smooth mellow acidity from a filter style. With the sharp intense notes associated with espresso. It was very very nice.
I can't really describe it better than that. I left the shop feeling a little confused. I just drank something totally new and totally different. Best of both worlds!
All I can say is, give it a go. Now, I don't know how much influence the EK43 played. But if that's how it can be used then it certainly has it's place alongside a V60, syphon and espresso machine.
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*cough*Originally posted by thebookfreak58 View PostHad a coffee made on an EK43 today...will type up the notes soon
tencharacters
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