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Macap M2M Grinder

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  • #31
    Thanks. What about the grinding capabilities, have there been any changes in newer models?

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    • #32
      No exactly the same

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      • #33
        Will changing from a Rancilio Rocky to a Macap M2m be considered an upgrading with respect to grind consistency and retention?

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        • #34
          I've started seeing a new version of the M2M pop up which is stepless - this would be an improvement over the Rocky, IMO.
          I haven't used a Rocky so can't comment on the grinding aspects.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by dbun View Post
            I've started seeing a new version of the M2M pop up which is stepless - this would be an improvement over the Rocky, IMO.
            I haven't used a Rocky so can't comment on the grinding aspects.
            Thanks, I've looked at the design of chute which seemed to allow less ground retention. Currently i am using a 3d printed mod chute for the Rocky; open chute and angled down steeply. It allows me to fit in a small brush to sweep out the excess. Abit time consuming and it adds up..

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            • #36
              I thought I might chip in with my experience owning a Macap M2D (basically the same as an M2M but with an electronic timer). I upgraded to it from a BCG800 that had the worn impeller problem. Living with it for the last two years, paired with a Silvia, here's some of the things I've noticed

              - Biggest issue (in a domestic setting) is grind retention. The first shot of the day is more or less a write off with too much leftover grounds. It really takes two shots before it properly starts putting out fresh beans. As a result, it's also not really possible to single dose, if the grinder is empty, what you put in is most definitely not what you get out
              - Dialling it in is challenging in a domestic setting. Because of the grind retention, after changing the grind setting, the next cup more or less reflects whatever the previous setting was. So it's difficult to make large changes to the setting. On a day to day basis it's not really a problem, but it can be difficult when changing beans. A typical example would be, after loading some new beans in, it takes a shot to clear out the old beans, a shot to see how the new beans are doing, and then if you change the setting one notch, another shot to clear out the old setting, and then another shot to see how the new setting is. One can go through a lot of beans that way! It makes it almost impossible to buy 250g bags of beans because you go through too much of it trying to dial it in. Where previously I might have sometimes ordered a collection of 250g bags to try a bunch of different beans, I now order in at least 500g or 1kg lots just because there's too much waste otherwise
              - A new stepless design would be great - the steps are quite large and I find I definitely need to adjust the dose to get an effect somewhere between steps (e.g. going one step finer might require reducing the dose to prevent choking). Adjusting the dose would be easy if doing it volumetrically using Scottie Callaghan-type dosing tools, but because of the grind retention issue you can't adjust the dose by weight easily as you can if you single-dose
              - It's a lot messier compared to the BCG800 (I can't say anything about how it compares to other grinders, of course)
              - Probably the most annoying problem - when going to finer settings, occasionally the beans start clumping up and clogging the grinder. When this happens, they can get compacted enough that the grinder clogs entirely and you have to take off the top burr and brush out the coffee - simply backing off to a coarser setting doesn't get the compacted coffee out. Either you do that and throw out all that coffee, or you can pre-emptively back off when the clumping starts to get worse, *but* you need to back off enough to clear out the clumped coffee which is too coarse to actually get good results (and, I find that with the clumped coffee present, the same grind setting gives a different result, for example, going from 2-3 and pulling a few shots will give different results to going from 2-5-3 and pulling a few shots). So either way, there's a couple of cups worth of coffee wasted and it takes a couple of shots to get back to the right setting/dose.

              All of this comes across as rather negative, but it's all about context. If the grinder was being used in a higher volume setting (e.g. in a cafe as a decaf or single origin grinder on the side) then absolutely none of this would be a problem. But I only make two coffees a day, and these issues affect me significantly because I can't afford to throw out the first coffee every day In that respect, I find I miss my old BCG800 just because it was better suited to my domestic usage. The grind quality on the M2M/M2D is noticeably better than the BCG800 and when everything is right, the coffees I've been able to make with it absolutely blow away anything I could do with the BCG800. But the problem is that I can't consistently do it for the reasons above, whereas I was able to get consistent results with the BCG800 from day to day even with the relatively low usage, right from the first shot.

              On the positive side, it's compact, quiet, very solid, and clearly well built. It's a solid pick when used as designed, but personally I can't say that I can recommend it for light domestic use (2-4 coffees/day) - it's very much suited to higher volumes, which I'm sure some people do at home, but not me unfortunately I'm not sure if I'll take the hit of replacing my M2D now that I have it (and it _is_ a nice bit of kit) but in retrospect I probably should have gone with a BCG820. Hope this is helpful to someone considering the M2M/M2D domestically - overall, I'd say it's a great grinder but intended usage matters a lot as to whether it's the right grinder for the job

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              • #37
                Interesting review Papagoose.

                I think many here confuse retention v "what's sitting in the throat". From what I can see, most of the issues you have described here are actually caused by what's in the throat, not retention.

                When you grind everything in the throat through your grinder, true retention is that portion of ground coffee sitting around the burr set which is not expelled out the chute of the grinder. This will be much, much less than a single dose. The solution to your issues with old coffee is to ensure it's not there in the first place! Close the hopper gate before you grind that last shot and hey presto!

                A note of clarification also for those who read your post. Previously, there were multiple importers of Macap and varying configurations of many models were sold in Australia. To the best of my current understanding, all current Macap stock is now landed by one exclusive importer and ALL M2M stock is also stepless micrometric. This has been the case for a good 6 months or so.

                Those wanting a micrometric M2M need only enquire as to specification when choosing a supplier. Some suppliers disclose this in their website listings. Some suppliers are also probably still holding old stepped adjustment stock.

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                • #38
                  Full marks for reading it from beginning to end Caffeinator, heck of a block of text to battle through.

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                  • #39
                    Having used an M2M regularly for nearly two years, I feel I need to make this post to balance the above review by papagoose.

                    Retention - I think Caffeinator has nailed it in his post. Actual retention in the M2M is very low- a (very) few of tenths of a gram in my experience. It's not ideal for single dosing, but better than most others in it's class.

                    Dialling in - I have no problems when changing beans - it's usually one click up or down, unless I'm also changing the dose, when it might be two clicks one way or the other.
                    Qualifier - I only grind espresso in the M2M. Maybe it would be different if I was switching from Turkish to filter and back again.

                    Stepless - I like a stepped grinder, because it gives me easy, positive reference points to return to on the odd occasion that I do change settings. The steps on the M2M are quite small, and I have never felt that they needed to be smaller. That said, I should confess that I'm not anal about shot timing, and anything between 25 and 35 seconds is OK for me - if it tastes good.

                    Clogging - I have never had a single case of clogging my M2M and I have put lots of KG's through it. However, I don't do dark oily roasts, and I never grind superfine, so maybe I have never really put it to the test in this regard.

                    The Positives - Compact, solid, quiet. Got to agree with all of these.

                    I guess it comes down to personal preferences, but my experience with my M2M has been very positive from day one.

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                    • #40
                      Thanks Caffeinator and deegee for your replies. It's true that the main issues I'm having with the grinder are related to retention, and I'd be delighted if I'm doing something wrong and there's an easy fix!

                      But to be sure, I measured the grind retention this morning in two ways. First, I emptied and removed the hopper, and ran the grinder until there was no audible grinding and nothing came out of the chute. I also stop-started a few times to try and dislodge anything extra. Then, I removed the top burr. The ground coffee remaining can be seen in the attached photo - that would be "that portion of ground coffee sitting around the burr set which is not expelled out the chute of the grinder". I used a brush to clear out as much of that coffee as I could and captured it through the chute. It came out at 3.5g. Then, I reassembled the grinder, and added 20g of beans to the hopper. I ran the grinder again until there was no audible grinding and nothing coming out of the chute. Of that 20g, only 15g came out, which would imply 5g retention (I'm not surprised that this was higher than the 3.5g from before, I suspect I dislodged some grounds while I was taking off the top burr that weren't included in the first measurement).

                      So if I measured this correctly, grind retention in my grinder is a LOT more than the few of tenths of a gram deegee reports. It's nowhere near a whole shot, but I make it to be around 20-30% of a dose, which would be enough to make a noticeable difference in the cup. I don't think this amount would be changed by closing the hopper gate? I'd be curious if anyone else can repeat this experiment, maybe there's just something wrong with my grinder...?
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        Hi papagoose,

                        Seems you might need to buy either a Niche grinder or an etzMAX as you feel you have made a poor choice by purchasing a small commercial grinder.

                        I sometimes wonder if many of us don't just create problems for ourselves by reading largely irrelevant stuff online?

                        How many grams are you dosing and can you really and unerringly blind taste yesterday's in that first shot v the second?

                        Whilst many of us may think we have the the finely honed palate to win the world cupping competition, the reality is that it ain't that easy! Try it.

                        Enjoy the ride....
                        Last edited by Caffeinator; 7 February 2019, 08:31 PM. Reason: grammar

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
                          I sometimes wonder if many of us don't just create problems for ourselves by reading largely irrelevant stuff online?
                          Many of us certainly do, it ain't rocket science.

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                          • #43
                            Just got the stepped version of the M2M for a good price. I know there's a newer version now but the sale on the old one couldn't be passed up!

                            Anyway, I'm hoping the good folks here can share where they set their M2M grinders generally for espresso. I saw a few posts up that 3-4 clicks up from the zero point was suggested. Can anybody else back this up? It seems kind of clumpy from what I can tell, suggesting it's too fine? I currently have mine set a bit higher. I've lost count of the exact clicks but if I were to use the numbers on the dial as a reference, and the marker on the spout to read, I use anywhere from 5-6 currently.

                            I know it's all personal trial and error but if other M2M users could share where they've found grind to best I'd greatly appreciate it

                            Awesome, sturdy little machine! Stylish too. Love it.

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                            • #44
                              Just purchased a micrometric M2M grinder. A word: fantastic!
                              Living in WA I was fortunate to contact my friend Chris who updated me on the latest stepless model.
                              It arrived. It a cute, very solid baby! Smaller than the M4D.
                              I am not used to the reference being the moving adjustment so I kept winding away from “course” until nearly whole beans came through. Then I rewound until I clogged it up!
                              This was good for me as I removed the top and cleaned every thing out. Bit tricky as the output to the shute is hard to get to. Then I replaced the top until the grinding surfaces meet. Then turned the adjustment about a quarter of a turn open. This was a guess point.
                              From this point it was only two or three double shot grinds to get the extraction to around 60ml in 30 secs (that is two 30ml measuring glasses).
                              The micrometric adjustment is really great. I mark with a pencil a reference point then it just a bit either side depending on the beans and their freshness. It is of couse much slower that the M4D but it make a great cup.
                              In another location I have a M4D which has a micrometric adjustment, so I have a good reference unit. (Yes I know that the top turns clockwise to grind finer, but the top markings on the M2M suggested it was the other way.) see opening post!
                              It is a great grinder, a great price, great design and looks good and feels nice to touch and use.

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                              • #45
                                Mistle,
                                Yes the grinds are clumpy around the right fineness. This may have to do with slight machine roughness until worn in. My M4D still is a bit clumpy but like my new M2M make great coffeee. It does not create any channeling. To check, if the shot is channeling you will usually see holes in the surface of the puck. My guess point was about a quarter turn from blades touching.
                                Basically look for 60mls in 30 seconds. I look for around 40 ml in 20 sec for a ristretto. (Into 2 measuring glasses) These are starting points to work from. The freshness of the beans requires a slightly larger grind possibly two steps on a stepped unit. I am guessing as I have the stepless unit.
                                So it’s is timing and taste. Nothing else really matters.
                                I use Rocket espresso machines.

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