New Breville BCG820 "Smart Grinder Pro"

[bigdaddy]

Hi kyuss,

I enjoyed your posts and thanks for taking the time to write things down in a logical sequence.

Cheers.

[kyuss]

Had another half a dozen attempts over the last day or two, and have edged nearer to a good coffee on this equipment;

Vittoria supermarket beans
24s grind (stopping about half way to lightly tamp so it all fits in)
1 fineness
1 burr setting
16.3g dose
pretty hard tamp (including sunbeam's suggested tamp and twist)
original equipment single basket
20sec extraction
1st (lowest) of the "optimum pour" orange graduations on the EM7000 pressure gauge
39.7ml shot

So it looks like we really might be up against it trying to use this equipment to get a normal coffee out of supermarket beans, as we're at the finest possible grind, and almost the maximum dose (might be able to squeeze another gram into the basket) before getting close to the optimum range, and even then the extraction was still a little quick and a little too much for a single shot...

[kyuss]

EM7000 and BCG820

Greetings,

Long time observer but pretty sure this is my first post, and i'm doing so to share my experience with the combination of a Sunbeam EM7000 and the Breville BCG820 (so it'll have some "brewing equipment" bent to it too).

TLDR version; i've captured a few stats of grind size, quantity, freshness and more, to try to help others set up this pair of equipment, as (at least) a starting point. some issues having to drastically change the grind using supermarket beans, and some issues with dose variation.

Working on a new EM7000 (i know! theyre still available new some places) and purchased the Smart Grinder Pro once I realised my old grinder (Cuisinart DBM-8) couldn't espresso in an unpressurised basket without shimming and double-grinding everything - which (double-grinding) doesn't really appear to be a thing.

Anyway, purchased the Brewista Smart Scale 2 (II) (low end consumer devices are all smart!) so I could track the dosage, durations etc as it was clear from coffeesnobs grinding section that without measurement i'm flying blind.

I have found scattered amongst dozens of posts, some empirical details around the combination of bean choice, grind fineness, grind duration, dosage, extraction pressure, extraction time and quantity. Among this, I have seen mention of humidity as a thing when grinding, affecting clumpiness and perhaps requiring a finer (?) grind but it's notable that the climate in SE Queensland - while clearly more humid than many places - has been consistent these last couple of weeks in Autumn.

Firstly, my palette is not overly refined with many things including coffee so I can be perfectly happy with supermarket beans. Accordingly my overarching intent was to figure out how to set up grinder to support my lazy preference to grab Vittoria beans from Woolies, rather than good quality dark beans from somewhere that has roasted them only a week or so ago. Having said that, I did grab a small bag of fresh dark roast beans from "crema coffee garage" where I picked up my scales, and my first measurements were on good new beans.

I figured i'd add a small table of what has worked so far for me and what i'm still figuring out.

I figured that the goal was about 12-13g in the original single basket, and 18-19g in the original double basket (in spite of much criticism of the original single basket design, i'm trying to stick with the standard equipment), so i'm dialling in the fineness and the duration on the BCG820 to achieve the weight and the extraction pressure needed.

Using Removed commercial link as per Site Posting Policy fresh roasted robusta beans, the nearest I got to an extraction that was the correct quantity (about 30ml) in the correct duration (about 30sec) in the single basket was;

grind time - 12.8sec
fineness - 8
burr - factory 6
grind quantity - 11.9g
extraction duration - 32s
extraction quantity - 36.3ml
extraction pressure - within the second (the higher) orange graduation on the dial, the higher of the "optimum pour" range according to sunbeam.

With this, i was still not quite happy with the appearance - a pretty thin crema and fairly light in colour - even though the taste was fine if i'm any judge of that, and I figure it's still under-extracted, but with extraction duration being already above 30s, perhaps its right...

Knowing that the tamp on this one was probably a bit lighter than usual, i could probably have had a slightly better result, bringing down the extraction quantity, and extending the extraction duration a little, but suspect the flow would still have appeared a bit watery.

Certainly, I would not have achieved the poetic imagery that sunbeam have run with when they say I should be aiming for "a slow, but flowing pour of espresso with a consistency similar to that of dripping honey".

Changing to supermarket beans (Vittoria "Premium High Altitude Mountain Grown" arabica), I was blown away by just how different the grind settings had to be and i'm still working on getting it right. The best so far is still way under extracted;

grind time - ~15.9s (maybe a little more, i messed up the timing because i paused the grinder to lightly tamp, and didn't realise the timer resets really quickly)
fineness - 3
burr - 6
grind quantity - 13.1g
extract duration - 15s
extract quantity - 41.0ml
extraction pressure - grey (the segment below the "optimum pour" range on the Sunbeam)

The extraction quantity is too much, and the extraction duration too low (and a watery consistency) so suspect a finer grind could help as the grind quantity is getting close to maximum in the basket.

Next tried;
grind time - 16.0s
fineness - 1
burr - 6
grind quantity - 12.6
extraction duration - 10 (tamp variation??)
extraction quantity 39.4ml
extraction pressure - around the top of the second pressure graduation, well below the optimum pour range.

That's the most recent attempt. Logically the burr setting needs to be reduced from here, for these supermarket beans.

Having recorded details for 24 different combinations of grind time, fineness and - since the weekend - beans, in making a bunch of coffees on this equipment a couple of other observations;

With a focus on the (supposedly very difficult) single basket, i haven't done too many tests with the (supposedly much easier) double basket, but it appears to perform adequately on fresh beans with the below settings, but again the extraction didn't pour "like honey" was a little more watery than that and crema was still a little thinner and lighter in colour than expected;

grind time - 9.4s x 2 (taking the advice of Rusty maybe? in grinding once, tamping lightly, then grinding the second lot)
fineness - 8
burr - 6
grind quantity - 16.3 (still pretty low)
extraction duration - 30sec
extraction quantity - 72.5ml (still pretty high)
extraction pressure - low in the first orange "optimum pour" segment

Final observations about the BCG820;
- There appear to be maybe 1-2g of retention, so banging on the side of the grinder at the end of a grind will change the observed quantity (so do it consistently or not at all)
- It looks like about a gram of additional grind for each additional second on the timer, so for example;

fresh beans went from
11s to 12s on
fineness 11, and the dose went from
11.5g to 12.5g, and on

supermarket beans went from
15s to 16s on
fineness 1, and the dose went from
11.7g to 12.6g.

- IIRC I have read that the grinder tries to do something to attempt to maintain a dose quantity during changes in grind fineness
- I've observed that fineness adjustment isn't too precise in that the wheel can be tweaked two or three larger movements and remain on the same fineness on screen, and once you tweak one movement too far (too fine), come back one tweak (love that word!) to the right fineness range, and you still have maybe two minor tweaks before it rolls over again. I've been adjusting to what i think is the absolute bottom of each fineness range.
- my observations around dose management through fineness adjustments are;

fresh beans
12s grind
11 fineness
12.5g dose
adjusted fineness down and saw
12s grind
10 fineness
11.9g dose

and ealier i experienced

9.6s grind
10 fineness
9.9g dose
adjusted fineness down and saw
9.6s grind
9 fineness
9.0g dose

- lastly, I don't have too many instances of this, but dose variation does appear to happen with same grind duration and fineness (and i think i recall reading this maybe even in this thread). i experienced;

11.8s grind
10 fineness
12.0g dose
and
11.8s grind
10 fineness
12.9g dose

and

10.2s grind
8 fineness
10.1g dose
and
10.2s grind
8 fineness
10.5g dose

Anyway, my wall of text on this grinder ends now.

Thanks

[Erimus]

Update: Bought a new Breville grinder while I wait for the dead one to be replaced or refunded. I think Breville have serious problems with quality control on these grinders. Its amazing to me that two grinders can be so different in how they perform.
The new grinder has the same inner setting of 6 as my last grinder and same grinder setting gives me roughly similar results with the same beans, however, the 1st grinder would give me 20gm in about 16s, this new one takes 22s. Thats 38% longer. With such variance, I have no confidence this grinder will make it past 6 months.

Why would you buy another grinder that you have no confidence in? I realise this grinder comes as a package. There are several grinders on the market that are not much more expensive than the smart grinder and will do a better job. You won't get these at Harvey Norman or the Good Guys though.
It's a bit like getting married again to someone you don't like ;-)

[dre0001]

Update: Bought a new Breville grinder while I wait for the dead one to be replaced or refunded. I think Breville have serious problems with quality control on these grinders. Its amazing to me that two grinders can be so different in how they perform.
The new grinder has the same inner setting of 6 as my last grinder and same grinder setting gives me roughly similar results with the same beans, however, the 1st grinder would give me 20gm in about 16s, this new one takes 22s. Thats 38% longer. With such variance, I have no confidence this grinder will make it past 6 months.

[dre0001]

Ive had my grinder for about 3 months, average about 8 shots a week. This morning it sounded like it was really struggling, then changed to that free-wheeling sound you get when you have no beans. I assumed that I had indeed run out of beans but when I topped up it still made the same freewheeling sound. Pulled it all apart, found a few beans jammed, gave it a good clean, ran it empty and it sounded normal except it then developed a consistent clunk. Im tipping it has stripped a gear or similar. I assume its replacement time? Very annoying!

[prydey]

prydey,

I also bought mine from The Good Guys. I rang Breville first and asked for a job number, but the guy said I didn't need one, just to take it back to where I bought it from. I did just that, and explained that I had rang Breville and the staff at good guys just took the old one and gave me a replacement. No quivering about it. Different stores, different outcome, I guess.

Good to hear. I just happened to get a woman who had a small amount of knowledge (which is dangerous) and seemed to take some convincing that it was no good and to contact Breville for confirmation.
Good that not all stores put you through that.

[bgd57]

You will need an ok from Breville. Good guys didn't want to play ball and wanted to test it first. Thankfully I'd already had the green light from Breville with a reference number that obviously linked to my complaint with Breville. Good guys rang up and quoted this number and voila, new grinder.

So, you may be fine, but I would suggest the place you bought it from won't replace it without a directive from Breville.

prydey,

I also bought mine from The Good Guys. I rang Breville first and asked for a job number, but the guy said I didn't need one, just to take it back to where I bought it from. I did just that, and explained that I had rang Breville and the staff at good guys just took the old one and gave me a replacement. No quivering about it. Different stores, different outcome, I guess.

[parktho]

Sigh... bought it online.

[rusty888]

From experience. Breville and retailers don’t talk. I went through this. Take it to the retailer and let them deal with it.

[prydey]

You will need an ok from Breville. Good guys didn't want to play ball and wanted to test it first. Thankfully I'd already had the green light from Breville with a reference number that obviously linked to my complaint with Breville. Good guys rang up and quoted this number and voila, new grinder.

So, you may be fine, but I would suggest the place you bought it from won't replace it without a directive from Breville.

[bgd57]

I also had a problem with my first 820. I rang Breville, and they told me, just to take it back to where I bought it from and get a replacement, which I did without a problem. Parktho, just take it back to where you bought it and ask for a new one.

[prydey]

I had my first 820 replaced after about 3 months. Using fresh beans I couldn't get anything less than a gusher and had maxed out the adjustment on both the top burr and the digital scale.
Rang Breville. They gave me a reference number and said take it back and get another one.

2nd one, which is my current one, is still on the factory setting for the top burr and digital scale is around 10, give or take, depending on beans.

[parktho]

Called Breville. They told me to use fresh beans. I did. Now I have no issues - I am using burr setting 3 and digital grind setting 11. I shouldn't have been so cheap using supermarket beans to trial it in the first place, although I still feel it should be just as capable as my old Sunbeam.

So as I had a problem achieving proper pressures again using fresh coffee, I called Breville back. They've tried telling me that I should set the grind a lot coarser if I'm using fresh coffee, and it should give a better shot, as opposed to supermarket coffee which needs to be ground super fine as it's lost its oils. I tried telling them that I set it coarse to begin with and dial down until I achieve the necessary back pressure to give a 30 s shot. Are they right and am I missing something?

Instead of offering replacement, they've given the details of their local repairer who I'm to take it to. The repairer is a 40 min drive from me, and I can see this just being a massive tail chase. Anyone want to advise how I should put this to Breville?

Thomas.

[narklord]

I've used this grinder for about 2 years. In the last few weeks it started to struggle and would require twice as much time to grind the same amount of beans. It clean the components but it didn't really help. As it was under warranty, I took it in to a repairer who replaced one of the burs.