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First 2 Weeks With My M4D

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  • #16
    Originally posted by artemidorus View Post
    ...I've been using a DeLonghi KG100, for 8 years...and it's now dying after some 12,000 shots. I'm looking to replace it...

    ...Compak K3 Touch VS Macap M4D. What advantage might I expect to enjoy in stepping up to the M4D from the K3?

    ...significant grind retention would be a problem (the KG100, for all its faults, does not retain grounds noticeably).

    ...The coffee that I make with my KG100 tastes much better to me than the coffee made by the cafe nearest to work with a Robur grinder and large commercial espresso machine (I accept that multiple factors are relevant to this comparison!) ....
    1) 8 years and 12 thou and great coffee.... WOW, WOW, and WOW !

    2) Both solid grinders of equivalent capacity. The only real life difference you will find will be in the *total user experience*, which as you might expect will be better for the more expensive grinder. Not because it costs more, but because the programmable timed dose and "total feel/use " of the M4D is "nicer". This is a personal opinion, and may be the opposite to what you think. Suggest you visit someone that can show you both side by side, because only you can decide if the significant extra cost is worth it for you.

    The M4D is available with stepped adjuster and if it were me, that is the one I would have rather than the micrometic model. The steps are tiny and you always know where you are. Micrometric is dead accurate but unnecessary if you have a good command of coffee making, and is slow if you want to make a significant change.

    The "stepless" adjuster of the K3 is about the only thing I don't like about it. I just don't like clutched stepless adjustment as a matter of course on any brand grinder because on some machines it can be quite notchy and therefore is not as accurate as it is made out to be. With steps OR micrometric adjusters, you always know where you are. With notchy stepless adjusters, you often overshoot and have to muck around to get back to where you were...

    3) Grind retention is only an issue with these models if you think it is....

    4) Robur what? As you have correctly observed, the idiotic practice of cafes specifying certain flavour of the decade brands and models of equipment, thinking that will somehow a good cuppa coffee guarantee, is delusional... Training, training, training, and good people, are the only things that will guarantee a good cuppa, and those operators will make good coffee on any good conventional piece of equipment that is well sorted and operating as it should. The rest is just people spending unnecessary loads of money to buy an image. Importers and manufacturers laughing all the way to the bank while their buyers have to work twice or thrice as long to pay that equipment off (than they would do if they bought good conventional equipment to make the same cuppa).

    Hope that helps.

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    • #17
      Thanks to all for their replies.

      The Macap M4D is now sitting on my kitchen bench, bought from Di Bartoli in Bondi Junction, a CS sponsor. They gave me a free bag of green Monsoon Malabar with it for being a CSer, thanks! I had a brief play with it before lunch. Suffice it to say that I'm going to have to change my ways a fair bit! It doesn't seem to like having only one pour's worth of beans in the hopper, several grams' worth of my first grind didn't come through, and I'm still dialing in the grind before even thinking of using the timer instead of the scales.. It seems strange to have the grinder towering over the Silvia! Looking forward to pressing on with the project tomorrow morning.

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      • #18
        This is a really helpful thread. My stealth black M4D has crossed the desert and should be delivered early next week! Destined to be used at our weekday 'coffee club' at our church (replacing a Rocky which is doing a great job, but very slow). It will be a partner to an old Rocket Premium 'Hybrid' which like the M4D was purchased with guidance and help from Chris at Talk Coffee.

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        • #19
          The stealth black M4D is 2 hours old. It is amazing. We are very happy with it. Sorry Rocky your days are numbered.
          Rather than starting a new thread - Questions to other M4D users to speed up the settling in:

          1. Do you set the grind timer or do you just manual grind.
          2. Do you work on 25ml in 25sec as a starting point.
          3. My start setting on the grind adjustment is around 5.5 but I realize that this would be machine specific.
          4. Do you have a heap of beans in the hopper or just grind what you want.

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          • #20
            i've seen pictures of the black M4D and its quite sexy! I have a chrome one

            1) i have mine set on 5sec per button push. I agitate the grounds ala WDT style. Takes 2 button pushes and abit to clear 20g of beans
            2) not sure if i can help on this point but i weigh my shots. 20g of beans for 35-40g of coffee extracted in ~30seconds
            3) for my giotto and most of my beans (i home roast), the grind setting is usually set around the 7 mark and I fine tune +/- from there. YMMV
            4) I have never used the hopper. I weigh my beans (20g) and put them into the throat of the M4D. I use a spare 58mm basket that sits really nicely on the top of the throat that stops any beans from escaping


            the worm drive on the M4D makes adjustments to grind settings the easiest thing to do!

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            • #21
              Thank you lemoo, all sounds good, it will be very helpful for me. I like using a spare basket, and only grinding what I need.

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              • #22
                I have used my M4D for 4 years now and have set around 10 secs for a double shot, with a little plus or minus if I am changing beans. In the summer I have found the humidity and heat mean I drop from down half a second rather than adjust the grind.
                Personally i haven't found the work drive so easy to use, but that seems to be my issue not the grinder, from reading this blog.
                The auto timing is brilliant. I have not yet found any need to replace the grinders, although my previous Rocky I did before 4 years.
                The M4D is a fitting companion for my Elektra T1

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                • #23
                  I'm able to give some feedback one week into my ownership. Firstly, I haven't got a routine yet. Because I've found that the automatic timer seems to fluctuate +/- 1.5 g around my desired 15g, depending on "coffeestatic" pressure in the hopper, I'm still shoving the collecting pot from my old grinder under the spout and then weighing out my dose into the group. The grind is fluffy and less clumped that the output of my old grinder, but I have to add that I haven't noticed any difference in taste. The grinder is very fast and quiet in comparison to my KG100. Given the fluctuation in timed output, I'm not sure that I'll ever graduate to simply shoving the group under the spout. My grind sweet spot seems to be at about 7.2, the best timer settings seem to be 8.3s for 15g and 4.2s for 8g, but dose reliability seems to require a "head" of pressure in the hopper. This doesn't work for me as I weigh out the beans for each morning into the hopper. Still, early days yet!

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                  • #24
                    Makes sense re need more beans than required for brew to get consistency, as it gets empty there will be beans bouncing around instead of being ground. If you are weighing the beans just put the grams you want in the hopper/throat and grind until all done.

                    Cheers

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by artemidorus View Post
                      This doesn't work for me as I weigh out the beans for each morning into the hopper. Still, early days yet!
                      Hello Art,

                      You will encounter issues if you choose to use the grinder in a manner it was not designed for. Add some beans to the hopper and then let the grinder do its thing. First shot of any session happens after a small purge. Once you're done, you can empty off if required.

                      FWIW, I tend to leave mine in the hopper for the couple of days it takes to use them as any acceleration of degas is a bonus for me (always too fresh) and the hopper is not that dissimilar to an airtight environment anyway. Andy wrote a great piece which supported this. I wash the hopper on refill.

                      I think it's easy to be somewhat retentive about all of this. We read stuff written by those who copy blindly and then imitate- but can we taste a difference in a blind tasting? Try anti-sheep and see if you can taste anything at all...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                        FWIW, I tend to leave mine in the hopper for the couple of days it takes to use them. Andy wrote a great piece which supported this.

                        I think it's easy to be somewhat retentive about all of this.
                        +1 to the C02 is heavier than oxygen fact. Andy sure stuck his neck out! Brave man!

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                        • #27
                          Was that a post of Andy's or an article?

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                          • #28
                            Hi Matt.

                            Café Culture.... article.

                            Cutting edge, underground stuff. Not for the faint hearted. Dangerous. :-D

                            But when you think of weighing out small amounts of coffee and the continual

                            displacement of CO2 from the bean mass and container and the continual mixing and remixing with air.........
                            Last edited by chokkidog; 7 August 2015, 05:23 PM. Reason: syntax ;-)

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                            • #29
                              Ooooooooohhhh playing around with the dark arts

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                              • #30
                                Well, the M4D is going good, well I should say I am doing great with it. With these new cut cost by stealth coffee cups (180ml) that are available now from coffee suppliers I am grinding 13gms for a double shot. I have found that a 50 plumbing pipe cap can be shortened to contain only 13gms level. It is quick to fill. I have ground about half the thickness off the outside about 1/4 inch and it fits snugly into the throat. Two small holes in the top let air in - so the grinds come out! If it was a conical (as in Kony) then an extension pipe needs to be added to keep the fingers attached to the hand for future use.
                                It took some time but the grind is right. I stop at 20ml for the double and it is gentle, sweet with a nice after taste that last for an hour or so. It is very appreciated at my "Coffee Club" - well they come back for more.
                                It is very fast.
                                Any grind adjustments are minuscule so the micro adjustment is great.

                                The Rocky steps are huge in comparison though I must say Rocky is a great grinder, but slow and retains a lot of grinds.

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