Advice - upgrade from Breville Smart Grinder (Rocket Giotto Plus)

[mgrobins]

Hi .

been a while since I have posted here and I'm hoping to get some insight into options for a grinder upgrade.
I'm trying to gain insight into the benefit to be gained vs outlay with a new grinder.

I find the BCG800 very convenient. I make a small change to grind each day or so to accommodate the aging of my beans and the 'smart' aspect manages the volume. It seems ok.... but not awesome. I am OCD and love my coffee as a hobby but I'm not a cupping expert .


My machine is a Rocket Giotto Premium Plus (V2 I think).

I drink 1-3 cups a day, mostly with milk and occasionally straight espresso.

Beans are roasted at a local roaster and I buy a KG/month roughly. I keep them in a sealed vacuum container and distribute a small'ish amount into the grinder every 2-3 days.

My first two questions are obviously:

1. is the Breville BCG800 limiting my coffee quality?
2. What is a good upgrade choice?


My criteria for an upgrade would be:

1. controlled dosing so I can set it and have it automatically dose the correct amount.

2. little to no retained grinds to reduce wastage.
3. very tidy distribution into the PF or container - again minimise wastage but also the cleanup.

4. Improved quality of taste over the BCG800

Cost is definitely a factor. I haven't set a specific budget at this point though I did choke when I saw the K8 fresh advertised at $2k :P

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

What is your budget? If $500 or so, consider the Compak K3 Touch (I'm led to believe the timer is now 'useful'). But remember that dosing the 'correct' amount requires you to determine what the correct amount is....and will vary across beans and bean age. There is some grind retention (like most grinders), but it's no big deal. Some people find them a little messy.....but I operate mine with my eyes open and the lights on and haven't had a mess problem. If you're spending a bit more then the Vario or then Macap M4M are obvious contenders.

[mgrobins]

Thanks Barry.

I have recently gone back to dosing 18g for my VST basket and adjusting the grind around that (accepting volume changes that occur). The 'IQ' of the Breville tries to adjust all of the elements so it's hard to grind by weight on the pre-sets.

I have owned a K3 push before.

[Lukemc]

Baratza forte will dose by weight to .2 gram I think...... It's just under 1k

[mgrobins]

This was one of the grinders that got me thinking about the upgrade. I do note though that the forte only does by weight into the hopper (and counts the time). you then have to manually tell it to set that time in memory if you want to use grind on demand with a PF. I may as well use my kitchen scales and set the time!

A shame really as at first glance the grind by weight option sounds perfect.

Otherwise it seems to get quite good reviews with grind quality being equated to a Mazzer Mini which I have never tried (though I did read the PF slides/vibrates out when filling??)

[noddyc43]

I am also in a similar situation looking to upgrade from a smart grinder. Have you considered the vario gen 2 as an alternative to the forte? Have read that it is smaller, less noisy and leaves less grind and about 3 hundred cheaper. There is a good thread on it here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...e-grinder.html

[Lukemc]

Advice - upgrade from Breville Smart Grinder (Rocket Giotto Plus)

I've got a forte. It's great. Dial up a weight and grind into the bin. Then tip into your portafilter. The portafilter holder is good and didn't slip on me but it is timed. Each time you change a find setting you have to rethink if you want exact dosing. I don't bother.

The grinder will convert the weight dose to a time dose for you. Just need to waste one dose once you have the grind set. It saves it as a timed dose if you tell it to.

[Lukemc]

Happy to let anyone have a go if they live near brighton Le sands too. Just got a hg one if anyone wants a shot on that too!!

[mgrobins]

Nice Luke. I was reading about the HG one and considering it very very carefully. Aside from being manual it ticks every box I have.

Noddy I have considered the Vario upgrade/gen 2 but cant find enough to know if its really a step up. The Forte I feel is more likely to be. I read on another forum some guys got it at just over $700. Not sure where and who sells them in Australia.

Luke, does the Forte grinding on weight with the container rely on a sensor or could you have a different container to grind into like the blind tumbler for your HG one (Blind Tumbler 2014 | HG one).

I figure this would be a nice mess free way to have weighted dosing and good distribution.

If the HG-2 hits the street (motorised) I might look at it haha. I didn't see pics but it's in prototype stage.

K8 Frsh will be out of my range too.

I might look on ebay/gumtree at some of the second hand commercials too. If I can get a mazzer running the large conicals I could get a nice result with a small custom hopper (and perhaps mod the doser to go grind on demand). I airbrush for a hobby .... could turn an ugly eye-sore into art :P

[Lukemc]

The forte relies on the ground container that comes with it for weighing into mate. Easy to shake it and then pour into a portafilter though.

[mgrobins]

great news thanks.

That would help with any grind inconsistency and 'fluff' the grinds nicely. No mess either assuming I can pour cleanly :P.

Hmmm... I could always get a funnel that has a flange to sit on my PF turned in metal or acrylic . Maybe even made on a 3d printer.


I still keep looking back at the HG One though. Everything about it seems just right..... except its manual haha.

[blend52]

. The Forte I feel is more likely to be. I read on another forum some guys got it at just over $700. Not sure where and who sells them in Australia.:P

If you find where to get a Forte for that price, let us know. !
There is one on Evilbay currently BNIB for 900 !
...But at the same "buy it now" price there is also a K30 !!!
Whilst the Vario is derided on this forum as a plastic appliance, in the US and on their forums it is rated in terms of "cup results" as a serious competitor to a Robur !
But really, for 3 cups a day , its much easier to single dose weighed beans into any "non doser" grinder, straight into your PF.
Using a PF funnel , this is a quick , clean, no waste operation that means you dont need to pay for electronic gimmicks on a grinder, and is basicly what you would have to do with an HG1 also.
Then your grinder options become much wider at >$1k

EDIT:
The forte is available from 5 Senses.
But remember there is also the cheaper Vario W that also grinds by weight (or time).
did you read this .. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...e-grinder.html

[mgrobins]

I am increasingly aware of the large amount of coffee retained in the grinding chamber of the BCG800. The loss per dose may not seem much but there is a lot that is compacted around the chamber edge and sitting there going rancid. Cleaning it daily or even weekly is a PITA unless you take out the bottom bur (even then still a PITA).

So, Im not rushing into anything. I'm evaluating how I do my daily coffee routine and deciding if a HG One will be a good fit. The quality and grind outcomes are clearly superior. Function with cleaning and grind retention also great. Static - a minor issue that can be overcome with water and most grinders have some.

The main point for me to think over is to do with the time grinding and wether I am happy to do that of a morning as part of my routine. It seems like a small time/point but the attraction of many grinders is the ease of their hands free function.

Cost? I guess I'm shopping in the same range with my inclinations right now. A part of my mind says ~$1k for a hand grinder is excessive and I'm getting less than the Forte however it's also a question of what I want the grinder to be.

The perfect grinder would be a motorised HG-1 and that's something I could probably create

I'm also interested in how easily the HG one is adjusted and kept dialled in. i'll go hunting in the HG one thread for that :P.

[blend52]

There is a thread on another forum with a guy who has been struggling to "season / condition" the burrs on his HG1, for many weeks, to get them to give results equal to another small hand grinder he is using !
The Robur conical burrs they use are renown for needing several kilos to get them performing consistently .
The HG1 seems an extreme step to the opposite end of the spectrum from the Breville ...and it falls down totally on your #1 requirement in your original post.
But hey !..you have upgradeitus , and thats OK...just keep things real. !

[mgrobins]

Yes that's the aspect that is making e think very carefully. Reasonably, I can keep a small supply of beans in a 'ready use' container and weigh them out to grind on demand through the HG One. Actually meets most of my needs in that regard. Looking at the routine some people use with it it's also saving time in some other cleanup etc that is needed with an electric. Less waste per shot with retained grinds.... it's got its own pro's and cons for sure.

THe only reason I still have the BCG800 is that I was unwilling to upgrade for a while. I now am happy to do so but still won't until I get more certainty . Less chance of buyers remorse then :P.

I've started seeking some advice in HG One threads and seeing what I can find on it. If a DIY mod to motorize it is feasible (especially a reversible mod) I'd be doubly keen.