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Advice - upgrade from Breville Smart Grinder (Rocket Giotto Plus)

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  • #16
    Mgrobins the more I read this thread the more I see your heart is in the HGone. would be worth asking if there is someone on this forum close to you that you can have a try on one and see if you are willing to go manual for the effort. Good
    luck with what ever your choice will be I am sure you will be stoked.

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    • #17
      I think it may be noddy.... but a good part of that is my need to fiddle and mod stuff haha. I see the HG One as an opportunity for a project that will give me good coffee.

      As far as a nice off the shelf solution I really think the Forte is my best choice. I don't know from a practical stand point how much my dose weight will change as I make minor changes in grind when I do it by time (I buy a KG a month roughly and just make small changes each day to the 2-3 day amount I stick in the hopper). I could always grind into the container though .... its just less simple than direct into the pf.

      Just for info too.... I cleaned my BCG800 today. People talk about the ~2g retained grinds but they are actually incorrect. 2g is the NET LOSS between doses. After getting rid of what was above the top bur (partial grounds etc) I cleaned out most (not all) of what was packed against the edges of the grinding chamber and measured it at 6g. So I'd estimate 7-8g total grounds actually hiding in there and going off. I'm guessing the dose people measure is say 18g in -> 16g out. That 16g is likely a mix of the some of these rancid grounds with the fresh grounds (I hope that makes sense).

      I'm hoping someone with a forte will input some advice re how it compares in this regard. I'm following a thread on the Home-Barista page as well for the forte and will see what comes back.


      I've started running a few grams out of my BCGf before loading my PF and the taste is definitely better. That's what has me looking at the forte with a critical eye regarding the retention as all other aspects seem perfect.

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      • #18
        Mm I would be scared sh**less to mod a HGone. Thanks for that info on the grind retention on the bcg800. I often clean the burrs when I change blends and I certainly get more than 2g but have never measured it. I also run a few grams in the morning out before I load my PF. I really want a grinder that has minimal retention as priority as I only get on average three coffees out of my grinder a day and freshness counts. I use a scale for weight. I will be keen to see how you go with your choice.

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        • #19
          I'll post back here as I learn more.

          I can't budget for a Versalab M3 which is why the HG One is an option. It can be modded reversibly using a windscreen wiper motor. I'm also looking at a Dewalt clutch and motor setup that would enable good rotation speed and adjustable torque to protect the burs in the event of a stone etc. A fellow in the US has gone down a similar path and we have been corresponding to nut out some details.

          I'll ring around locally and see if any stores have a forte. I'd like to have a look inside and see if it's better than my Breville for grinding fresh.

          Also of interest is the new Compak range. I'm still learning what the different levels are but there is 'essential' and 'fresh' which do grind on demand. K8 with flat burs and K10 with conical.

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          • #20
            You in Sydney at all mate? If so happy to show you both

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            • #21
              Brisbane . I love road trips but the distance is a little too far haha. Wonderful of you to offer though thanks Luke

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              • #22
                Hmmm... I just had a look online at pricing and the Malhlkonig branding seems to add a stupid amount to the price of the Vario vs overseas pricing under Baratza.

                A Baratza Forte is available in Australia for about $990 and the Mahlkonig Vario W is $780 at the cheapest price I can locate.

                Looking in the US I see that under Baratza the Vario W sells for ~$550 and the Forte for ~$900.

                I see no way to claim that it's a support issue or whatever. Its likely not the retailers but the distributor.

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                • #23
                  Talking to a few retailers they won't touch the vario due to warranty issues. Maybe the added dollars are to cover those issues? #purespeculation

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mgrobins View Post
                    Hmmm... I just had a look online at pricing and the Malhlkonig branding seems to add a stupid amount to the price of the Vario vs overseas pricing ......
                    You are looking over the wrong seas !
                    look at some of the European retailers of the Vario,.... you may get a surprise !

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                    • #25
                      Do you mean need for warranty due to poor quality or issues with the distributor? Baratza appears to have quite a good rep for after sales support in the US.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mgrobins View Post
                        Do you mean need for warranty due to poor quality or issues with the distributor? Baratza appears to have quite a good rep for after sales support in the US.
                        Couldn't comment, I know I asked two retailers who deal in high end mahlkonig grinders about them and they said they wouldn't touch the vario due to "warranty" issues, I didn't delve deeper

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mgrobins View Post
                          Do you mean need for warranty due to poor quality or issues with the distributor? Baratza appears to have quite a good rep for after sales support in the US.
                          Over the past years there have been many reports of breakages of minor parts on the Vario and warranty replacements, however, the current version ..the Mk II ?.. has had many improvements to address those breakages and should not suffer the same issues.
                          I dont know if there is sufficient history on the latest version to prove its reliability, but from the reviews it is a substantially changed m/c ..apparently !

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                          • #28
                            That history is one reason I'd look at the Forte rather than the vario.

                            I'm in no rush so I shall keep looking and working out what I can make work best for me .

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                            • #29
                              I was in the same situation about a month ago.
                              I first looked at the Vario and yes, there are so many good reviews, but also many 'small' issues that are looked after with warranty.
                              The Forte is in the same boat.
                              When I did my research on this site, one of the site sponsors is very strongly against the Vario and at first, i didnt understand what his issues are with them but after thought, you are spending $1000 and you want to make sure that all is going to be good for a number of year, a lot more than the three year warranty period.
                              The Compak, Macap and Mazzer's all have their issues, but the issues are not in build quality where a small part needs replacing, or alignment of parts, or differences in grind and dosing. They are issues with grind retention and mess, things easily fixed.
                              This is why I went the more conventional grinder route, a Compak k8. The taste difference over the Breville is amazing. A bit of practice and technique has given me results I can not argue with, with piece of mind that the thing will keep going for many many years. The k8 may not meet your requirements in terms of auto dosing, but a Macap m4d would be a good option i would think.
                              Last edited by denwol; 4 July 2014, 02:40 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Ah yeah....the grind retention thing again.

                                Grind retention is a figment of the imagination. If it bothers you, there is a problem. If it doesnt, there is no problem.

                                If it wasn't for endless discussions on the www, no one would be bothered.

                                It cant be any simpler than that.

                                That leaves you with "mess", and just like the above, it is very much an individual thing. Some can handle (manage) it, and others cant.

                                The thing about "cafe series" type grinders as mentioned (compak / macap / mazzer) is they are really simple beasts with few if any bells and whistles, that just do their work and never talk back at you (figuratively speaking).

                                Others have listened to the demands of their clients and have started giving them bells and whistles that the clients say they want....and that is where the problems lie, giving in to the demands of people that are becoming more and more difficult to please....and who apparently cant handle or are not satisfied with and want to find fault with, simple stuff that just works.

                                So you end up with a bunch of products offering points of difference for people to obsess over. Do they really grind or deliver coffee any better one from the other when used properly, or is it just a difference of bells and whistles for marketing purposes and for people to sell their products?

                                It should be the stuff of endless BLIND CUPPINGS to show people that what they think is not always what they taste

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