Advice - upgrade from Breville Smart Grinder (Rocket Giotto Plus)

[blend52]

Hmmm... I just had a look online at pricing and the Malhlkonig branding seems to add a stupid amount to the price of the Vario vs overseas pricing ......

You are looking over the wrong seas !
look at some of the European retailers of the Vario,.... you may get a surprise !

[Lukemc]

Talking to a few retailers they won't touch the vario due to warranty issues. Maybe the added dollars are to cover those issues? #purespeculation

[mgrobins]

Hmmm... I just had a look online at pricing and the Malhlkonig branding seems to add a stupid amount to the price of the Vario vs overseas pricing under Baratza.

A Baratza Forte is available in Australia for about $990 and the Mahlkonig Vario W is $780 at the cheapest price I can locate.

Looking in the US I see that under Baratza the Vario W sells for ~$550 and the Forte for ~$900.

I see no way to claim that it's a support issue or whatever. Its likely not the retailers but the distributor.

[mgrobins]

Brisbane . I love road trips but the distance is a little too far haha. Wonderful of you to offer though thanks Luke

[Lukemc]

You in Sydney at all mate? If so happy to show you both

[mgrobins]

I'll post back here as I learn more.

I can't budget for a Versalab M3 which is why the HG One is an option. It can be modded reversibly using a windscreen wiper motor. I'm also looking at a Dewalt clutch and motor setup that would enable good rotation speed and adjustable torque to protect the burs in the event of a stone etc. A fellow in the US has gone down a similar path and we have been corresponding to nut out some details.

I'll ring around locally and see if any stores have a forte. I'd like to have a look inside and see if it's better than my Breville for grinding fresh.

Also of interest is the new Compak range. I'm still learning what the different levels are but there is 'essential' and 'fresh' which do grind on demand. K8 with flat burs and K10 with conical.

[noddyc43]

Mm I would be scared sh**less to mod a HGone. Thanks for that info on the grind retention on the bcg800. I often clean the burrs when I change blends and I certainly get more than 2g but have never measured it. I also run a few grams in the morning out before I load my PF. I really want a grinder that has minimal retention as priority as I only get on average three coffees out of my grinder a day and freshness counts. I use a scale for weight. I will be keen to see how you go with your choice.

[mgrobins]

I think it may be noddy.... but a good part of that is my need to fiddle and mod stuff haha. I see the HG One as an opportunity for a project that will give me good coffee.

As far as a nice off the shelf solution I really think the Forte is my best choice. I don't know from a practical stand point how much my dose weight will change as I make minor changes in grind when I do it by time (I buy a KG a month roughly and just make small changes each day to the 2-3 day amount I stick in the hopper). I could always grind into the container though .... its just less simple than direct into the pf.

Just for info too.... I cleaned my BCG800 today. People talk about the ~2g retained grinds but they are actually incorrect. 2g is the NET LOSS between doses. After getting rid of what was above the top bur (partial grounds etc) I cleaned out most (not all) of what was packed against the edges of the grinding chamber and measured it at 6g. So I'd estimate 7-8g total grounds actually hiding in there and going off. I'm guessing the dose people measure is say 18g in -> 16g out. That 16g is likely a mix of the some of these rancid grounds with the fresh grounds (I hope that makes sense).

I'm hoping someone with a forte will input some advice re how it compares in this regard. I'm following a thread on the Home-Barista page as well for the forte and will see what comes back.


I've started running a few grams out of my BCGf before loading my PF and the taste is definitely better. That's what has me looking at the forte with a critical eye regarding the retention as all other aspects seem perfect.

[noddyc43]

Mgrobins the more I read this thread the more I see your heart is in the HGone. would be worth asking if there is someone on this forum close to you that you can have a try on one and see if you are willing to go manual for the effort. Good
luck with what ever your choice will be I am sure you will be stoked.

[mgrobins]

Yes that's the aspect that is making e think very carefully. Reasonably, I can keep a small supply of beans in a 'ready use' container and weigh them out to grind on demand through the HG One. Actually meets most of my needs in that regard. Looking at the routine some people use with it it's also saving time in some other cleanup etc that is needed with an electric. Less waste per shot with retained grinds.... it's got its own pro's and cons for sure.

THe only reason I still have the BCG800 is that I was unwilling to upgrade for a while. I now am happy to do so but still won't until I get more certainty . Less chance of buyers remorse then :P.

I've started seeking some advice in HG One threads and seeing what I can find on it. If a DIY mod to motorize it is feasible (especially a reversible mod) I'd be doubly keen.

[blend52]

There is a thread on another forum with a guy who has been struggling to "season / condition" the burrs on his HG1, for many weeks, to get them to give results equal to another small hand grinder he is using !
The Robur conical burrs they use are renown for needing several kilos to get them performing consistently .
The HG1 seems an extreme step to the opposite end of the spectrum from the Breville ...and it falls down totally on your #1 requirement in your original post.
But hey !..you have upgradeitus , and thats OK...just keep things real. !

[mgrobins]

I am increasingly aware of the large amount of coffee retained in the grinding chamber of the BCG800. The loss per dose may not seem much but there is a lot that is compacted around the chamber edge and sitting there going rancid. Cleaning it daily or even weekly is a PITA unless you take out the bottom bur (even then still a PITA).

So, Im not rushing into anything. I'm evaluating how I do my daily coffee routine and deciding if a HG One will be a good fit. The quality and grind outcomes are clearly superior. Function with cleaning and grind retention also great. Static - a minor issue that can be overcome with water and most grinders have some.

The main point for me to think over is to do with the time grinding and wether I am happy to do that of a morning as part of my routine. It seems like a small time/point but the attraction of many grinders is the ease of their hands free function.

Cost? I guess I'm shopping in the same range with my inclinations right now. A part of my mind says ~$1k for a hand grinder is excessive and I'm getting less than the Forte however it's also a question of what I want the grinder to be.

The perfect grinder would be a motorised HG-1 and that's something I could probably create

I'm also interested in how easily the HG one is adjusted and kept dialled in. i'll go hunting in the HG one thread for that :P.

[blend52]

. The Forte I feel is more likely to be. I read on another forum some guys got it at just over $700. Not sure where and who sells them in Australia.:P

If you find where to get a Forte for that price, let us know. !
There is one on Evilbay currently BNIB for 900 !
...But at the same "buy it now" price there is also a K30 !!!
Whilst the Vario is derided on this forum as a plastic appliance, in the US and on their forums it is rated in terms of "cup results" as a serious competitor to a Robur !
But really, for 3 cups a day , its much easier to single dose weighed beans into any "non doser" grinder, straight into your PF.
Using a PF funnel , this is a quick , clean, no waste operation that means you dont need to pay for electronic gimmicks on a grinder, and is basicly what you would have to do with an HG1 also.
Then your grinder options become much wider at >$1k

EDIT:
The forte is available from 5 Senses.
But remember there is also the cheaper Vario W that also grinds by weight (or time).
did you read this .. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...e-grinder.html

[mgrobins]

great news thanks.

That would help with any grind inconsistency and 'fluff' the grinds nicely. No mess either assuming I can pour cleanly :P.

Hmmm... I could always get a funnel that has a flange to sit on my PF turned in metal or acrylic . Maybe even made on a 3d printer.


I still keep looking back at the HG One though. Everything about it seems just right..... except its manual haha.

[Lukemc]

The forte relies on the ground container that comes with it for weighing into mate. Easy to shake it and then pour into a portafilter though.