Announcement

**richard_m_h** · 23 September 2014, 02:17 PM

if you search the forums you will find a thread on coffeeitalia experiences that may be worth a read. I bought from them years ago but they had a local rep/agent then.

**TampIt** · 23 September 2014, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Grummer View Post

Well I have enquired freight costs of grinders (Mahlkoerig Vario) from two places to New Zealand to compare, both says they offer free freight to NZ (nice) and it comes with an international warrenty, while the other says freight is in the vincity of 130 (mainly insurance on the overseas shipping just in case), but no international warrenty, just a return to base (which seems the more usual procedure)...., the later is your reknown trusted vendor - Di Bartoli , the former is the

of the two are, dibartio and the former is the Coffeeitalia Australian, heck they even sells
a commercial link removed per http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-ne...icy-rules.html Fiorenzato Doge 63 Coffee Grinder for $699...very tempting!!

so...

go for the Vario from Italia? or is it safer to get it from Di Bartoli ? (this is where I bought the Bacchi from - their very last one)

only reason im thinking of the Doge 63 is that its VERY similar in price...but they may not offer free freight for this to NZ?? (id ask)...now if they say yes, get it? or stick with the Vario??

Sorry this is crazy, 2 different animals of grinders...

umm argghhh

Hi Grummer

... back to Italian steel burrs & a doser. If you love stale coffee or neverending cleaning after each dose, go for it. The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history.

I bought my Vario's from Grand Central Bibra Lake. Not usually direct to public, however Luke has a Vario for a $$$'s less. Worth a look but check for warranty conditions.

Also Mahlkonig's are distributed from Sydney, I assume they may have a NZ agent as well. Probably worth a look up / email by starting at their German home page.

TampIt

**chokkidog** · 23 September 2014, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by TampIt View Post

The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history.

Hi Tampit,

What do you mean by "will probably work" and " for a while".

Grummer.... some reading for you re steel vs ceramic.

https://www.baratza.com/blog/steel-v...n-the-lowdown/

TC · 24 September 2014, 07:54 AM

I can fully understand why a company might produce a ceramic burr. It gives them something different to sell. Realistically, home users are going to get many, many years out of their metal burrs and the grinders they are installed them are going to be around for a long, long time. Witness those of us who have ex. cafe grinders 10, even 15 years old. They're heavy and substantially metal.

When I see mainly plastic I cannot help but think that longevity will be compromised. I'd personally rather have manufacture quality and take a small hit on wasted coffee. Others choose not to and that's fine by me.

**TOK** · 24 September 2014, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by TampIt View Post

... back to Italian steel burrs & a doser. If you love stale coffee or neverending cleaning after each dose, go for it. The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history....

Still not understanding what the motivation is to put blatant misinformation out into the market place.

"...Stale coffee and never ending cleaning after each dose...." I think not, except perhaps for the most difficult and uncompromising clients.

"...The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history..." Really? Readers should take the comment in proper context.

Perhaps a set of ceramic grinding burrs will out last a set of steel ones over a period of many years home use....note....*period of years*.

Doesnt take into account for the different types of metal burrs that are fitted or can be bought as replacements.

Doesnt take in account that (in my own personal experience) most home users dont use much more than 250 grams of coffee per week.

People who actively participate in these forums seem to mostly buy ex cafe grinders or semi commercial type grinders. The manufacturers advise an average service life of the planar grinding plates at about 400 kilos throughput (much more for conicals). While this varies with type of coffee used, 400 kilos divided by 250 grams /week = a service life of over 32 years. Halve that for someone that uses more than average and its still 16 years.

A well designed and simple semi commercial or commercial grinder is still running and doing the job it was designed for, in 16 years no question.....will the other grinders referred to here last long enough in toto so that their apparently very long lived ceramic burrs can keep on keeping on?

Context please.

**blend52** · 24 September 2014, 09:26 AM

"...The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history....

I wonder why there are so few commercial grinders with ceramic burrs ?

**mmmcoffee** · 24 September 2014, 10:12 PM

Is TampIt suggesting a domenstic a Vario ceramic burr grinder will last longer than a commercial steel burr grinder??

Note to all reputatable cafés around the world sell you big bling and expensive grinders (EK 43, Mazzer Kold, Rubor etc) and buy a $680 vario apparently they will last considerably longer!! Bargin

In the words on TopGear "on that bomb shell"...

**Dragunov21** · 25 September 2014, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by TampIt View Post

The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history

Not to labour the point, but this is bordering on duplicity.

- The ceramics may last longer, but that only matters if the steel burrs last an unacceptably short time.
- I'd much prefer to have steel burrs if I had the misfortune to grind a rock, which is quite possible.

TC · 25 September 2014, 06:34 AM

Agreed. The key thing is that ceramic burrs are cheap (to manufacture).

**Grummer** · 25 September 2014, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by blend52 View Post

I wonder why there are so few commercial grinders with ceramic burrs ?

I thought about this too...but when i thought about it, its like, the turn-around of making-selling ceramics in households is likely to be more "profitable" as there is LESS grinders to be sold to households. with so many variety from way dirt cheap, to way blingy expensive cafe' types. The cheap stuff as we know here, have crappiest blades the cuts rather than crush to even sizes...($30 grinders for instance, appliances types). The uneducated just buys it, knowing nothing 'but its a grinder'....on the other hand, this 'niche' marketing to sell ceramics as they do last longer, and have less heat retention, thus less affects on the coffee as end result (and probably may explain why some prefer the 'taste from steel burrs as a 'slightly burnt grinds' may 'taste normal' due to be so used to it....are probably aimed to erm..."Coffee snobs" (pardon the pun lol)...

however caveat seems to be that ceramic burrs breaking at cafes could well put their business at risk of stalls due to repairs or replacing more expensive blades...
and
the production of ceramic blades being small(er) volumes (as in niche of home-based market) may render the perception as a lower risk in terms of consumer satisfaction, after all ceramic burrs users is not likely to use it for a home brew setup, as it could break on beans too lightly roasted ? or something I need to point out that I know NOTHING ABOUT ROASTING, it's just me guessing on maybe why ceramics not being suitable for this application).

am i wrong about this?

**Grummer** · 25 September 2014, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post

Not to labour the point, but this is bordering on duplicity.

- The ceramics may last longer, but that only matters if the steel burrs last an unacceptably short time.
- I'd much prefer to have steel burrs if I had the misfortune to grind a rock, which is quite possible.

how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??

TC · 25 September 2014, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Grummer View Post

how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??

Easy: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...nd-coffee.html

**Yelta** · 25 September 2014, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Grummer View Post

how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??

It's not uncommon for foreign objects to find their way into coffee beans during processing Grummer, people have reported everything from stones to nails, think I even read a report on someone finding the tip of a human finger, commercial roasters use destoners and magnets to solve the problem, home roasters are more at risk.

If you roast at home it pays to be vigilant, do a visual check, I watch carefully at every step, when weighing out the greens, pouring into roaster, whilst in the cooler, and during the pre grind preparation, over the years I've picked up a few small stones, not common but it only takes one.

Andy (Coffee Snobs) has a warning printed on his green bean labels,

"NOTE This is a raw product direct from coffee origin and could contain foreign objects that you would prefer not to come in contact with your coffee and coffee making equipment. Please process with care."

**chokkidog** · 25 September 2014, 09:14 AM

Coming back to your original post Grummer; why not purchase locally in NZ? You can get Mazzer,

Anfim, Quickmill, Rancilio and probably others.

You'll get local service, and replacement burrs easily!!! ;-D

Announcement

Its this straight ?

Its this straight ?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment