Doser vs Doserless for Home Use (Mazzer Mini vs. K3 & M2M)

[Dimal]

My setup is a Macap M4D and an Italian Lever that is often overlooked for its simplicity and pedigree.

Forgive my ignorance Bosco, but what make of Lever machine is that one in your avatar?

Mal.

[Gavisconi007]

I upgraded from the Ditting Vario to a Mazzer Mini a few years back as the Ditting just felt a bit cheap and plasticish.

Not once did i ever regret buying the Mini until i upgraded to a Mahlkonig K30 for home use but in fairness, the K30 is roughly 4 x the price of the Mazzer Mini and should perform better and i would still be happy with the Mini had i never upgraded.
The doser did not bother me. Even after years of doserless use in a commercial setting. Easy to clean with a quick brush. Especially once you get to know how much coffee to put in the hopper for a given amount of shots needed.

I am unable to comment on your other mentioned grinders though as the other guys mentioned, you would be happy with any of them

I agree Luke,the doser is fine, just run the grinder for X seconds (counting in one's head) and after a while the wastage is minimal. Did you discover the more complex depth of flavours as I did when comparing to a flat burr grinder?

[Luke_G]

I upgraded from the Ditting Vario to a Mazzer Mini a few years back as the Ditting just felt a bit cheap and plasticish.

Not once did i ever regret buying the Mini until i upgraded to a Mahlkonig K30 for home use but in fairness, the K30 is roughly 4 x the price of the Mazzer Mini and should perform better and i would still be happy with the Mini had i never upgraded.
The doser did not bother me. Even after years of doserless use in a commercial setting. Easy to clean with a quick brush. Especially once you get to know how much coffee to put in the hopper for a given amount of shots needed.

I am unable to comment on your other mentioned grinders though as the other guys mentioned, you would be happy with any of them

[Bosco_Lever]

Thankyou oh-wise-one.

Your welcome, oh sarcastic-one.

[Gavisconi007]

They have to, otherwise they would be the biggest idiots if they cannot notice a significant difference in flavour after forking out a heap of money.

Thankyou oh-wise-one.

[Yelta]

How about a dose of reality?
Where are you going to buy an Elektra Nino for the same price range as a K3 or similar?
Yes , they do come up for sale (second hand), but very RARELY, and not in the price range mentioned.
If you can buy one for under $1k, then snap it up. Otherwise be prepared to pay over $2k+ new, even if you self import.

A commercial conical is worth buying 2nd hand if you can get it at a good price, and you have the space, otherwise it is massive overkill.

Everyone who buys a conical will always say they can notice the difference. They have to, otherwise they would be the biggest idiots if they cannot notice a significant difference in flavour after forking out a heap of money.
Do some blind tasting, and I bet the result is always good, just different, and NOT that one is significantly better than the other.

As an example, I have tried espresso in shops, made with a Robur and a LM (or similar machine). I have then bought the same beans from the establishment, and succeeded in pulling better tasting espressos at home with my gear. Not just my opinion, but also the same result from 3 other espresso drinkers in the house. My setup is a Macap M4D and an Italian Lever that is often overlooked for its simplicity and pedigree.

Do not be fooled into thinking you have to spend thousands to achieve a good result at home. Quality beans and technique are more important.

Lots of common sense in this post, not a common attribute nowadays.

[Bosco_Lever]

How about a dose of reality?
Where are you going to buy an Elektra Nino for the same price range as a K3 or similar?
Yes , they do come up for sale (second hand), but very RARELY, and not in the price range mentioned.
If you can buy one for under $1k, then snap it up. Otherwise be prepared to pay over $2k+ new, even if you self import.

A commercial conical is worth buying 2nd hand if you can get it at a good price, and you have the space, otherwise it is massive overkill.

Everyone who buys a conical will always say they can notice the difference. They have to, otherwise they would be the biggest idiots if they cannot notice a significant difference in flavour after forking out a heap of money.
Do some blind tasting, and I bet the result is always good, just different, and NOT that one is significantly better than the other.

As an example, I have tried espresso in shops, made with a Robur and a LM (or similar machine). I have then bought the same beans from the establishment, and succeeded in pulling better tasting espressos at home with my gear. Not just my opinion, but also the same result from 3 other espresso drinkers in the house. My setup is a Macap M4D and an Italian Lever that is often overlooked for its simplicity and pedigree.

Do not be fooled into thinking you have to spend thousands to achieve a good result at home. Quality beans and technique are more important.

[Gavisconi007]

I cannot argue, as i have never used one.... but that must be a very unique grinder if it truly has no grinds retained and doesnt need brushing or blowing out . If so , Electra are to be congratulated.
However, i do know that the K10, Kony etc do retain far too many grinds to be practical for casual domestic use if you are not prepared to bump , brush, and blow after single doses..
But, the same can be said about most grinders to a greater or lesser extent, its just that the big commercial machines were not designed for infrequent single doses.

Agreed. Having had a K10, the Elektra has virtually no grind retention. However even the K10 only needed a few seconds to brush out the chute

[blend52]

ZERO retention issues with my Elektra Nino

I cannot argue, as i have never used one.... but that must be a very unique grinder if it truly has no grinds retained and doesnt need brushing or blowing out . If so , Electra are to be congratulated.
However, i do know that the K10, Kony etc do retain far too many grinds to be practical for casual domestic use if you are not prepared to bump , brush, and blow after single doses..
But, the same can be said about most grinders to a greater or lesser extent, its just that the big commercial machines were not designed for infrequent single doses.

[Gavisconi007]

Don't be seduced by the bigger is better school of thought Greenplastic, for home use commercial grinders are overkill and introduce another set of problems.

One of the three grinders on your original list will do everything you want and need.

If the pursuit of getting a markedly better result in the cup is overkill then I confess I am guilty Yelta. If I thought for a moment that the Titan conicals didn't produce a substantially better taste, I wouldn't have raised it for Greenplastic's consideration. Of course there are many that think Titan conicals are overkill and that is just fine by me. In the meantime I'll wallow in bliss knowing that the result in the cup is what really matters.

[Gavisconi007]

....and don't forget the "retention" or clean out issues when big commercial Conicals are used for just a few shots per day.

ZERO retention issues with my Elektra Nino

[Yelta]

Don't be seduced by the bigger is better school of thought Greenplastic, for home use commercial grinders are overkill and introduce another set of problems.

One of the three grinders on your original list will do everything you want and need.

[blend52]

..... if footprint is an issue then that could well be a deal breaker right there.

....and don't forget the "retention" or clean out issues when big commercial Conicals are used for just a few shots per day.

[Gavisconi007]

I think for the volume of coffees that I'll be making these guys would be overkill! I love the idea of them but space wise, I don't think I could afford their footprint in my kitchen.

Do the conical burrs really make that much of a difference? My current grinder is a conical burr...

From my experience, YES, the large conical burrs (not small ones like Breville) really do bring out more complexity and depth of flavour than flat burrs. It is well worth exploring in my opinion, however if footprint is an issue then that could well be a deal breaker right there.

[greenplastic]

GP, IMHO you should also consider a good used Titan conical- eg Compak K10, Wega 8, Mazzer Kony, Elektra Nino. You can pick one of these up for around the same price or even less than a Mazzer Mini and they bring out a whole new level of flavour complexity. Not to mention their build quality means they are likely to last at least as long as a new mini if you can find a good used one.

I think for the volume of coffees that I'll be making these guys would be overkill! I love the idea of them but space wise, I don't think I could afford their footprint in my kitchen.

Do the conical burrs really make that much of a difference? My current grinder is a conical burr...