Doser vs Doserless for Home Use (Mazzer Mini vs. K3 & M2M)

[deco0028]

Congrats Devoon ur new Macap!! Once you dial it in and get used to it you'll love it! Did you keep you SB0480 grinder? Could use this for courser grinds??

Don't ever appologise for getting into coffee it's all of our legal drug of choice and keep the work wheels turning and keeps Alzheimer’s away
Keep experimenting can take a bit to dial in and get used to it!

Thanks, I am slowly getting there with the Macap. Amazingly sensitive, one or two notches the wrong way and the machine either clogs or the pour is too fast. No clumping like the EM0480 though. Cheers

[mmmcoffee]

Thanks Yelta and mmm. I am in the category of not knowing any better with my Sunbeam, which is half the problem. How would I know if the other grinders are better, if I do not have a benchmark to compare the SB to?
Maybe ignorance is bliss. Should have stuck with instant coffee, and never should have started roasting. Now, my palate has been spoilt, and I want more of the good stuff!!!

Congrats Devoon ur new Macap!! Once you dial it in and get used to it you'll love it! Did you keep you SB0480 grinder? Could use this for courser grinds??

Don't ever appologise for getting into coffee😁 it's all of our legal drug of choice and keep the work wheels turning and keeps Alzheimer’s away😝
Keep experimenting can take a bit to dial in and get used to it!

[deco0028]

Hi deco0028

Having owned two EM480's until recently (and far too many other, mostly commercial grinders to remember) if you want to "upgrade" for domestic espresso the only two grinders I know of that you will probably be happy with are the manual HG One (played with and still still considering one) or a Mahlkonig Vario (I have two of them).

EM480 "upgrade" domestically: Assuming it is set up & cleaned properly, the EM480 puts a lot of mid priced commercial grinders to shame for espresso use. It is also a superb (and I do not use that word lightly) grinder for coarser grinds, unlike a number of more specialised espresso grinders.

FWIW, I look at it this way:-
1) All grinders have a "sweet spot" in their range.
2) Conicals (like the 480) tend to have a "two peak" particle spread, which traditional espresso making regards as a "very good thing". Some of the new concepts in espresso making validly call that into question (without getting into so called "3rd wave" stuff). Most of these traditional espresso grinders are hopeless at Turkish coffee grinding. Turkish grind is very fine indeed: I have even seen commercial grinder manuals telling you not to do it as the burrs receive a lot less lubrication and can overheat.
3) The EM480 also happens to be (by design?) very good at coarser grinds, just like a lot of other "really big conicals". Happily, unlike a lot of other conicals, the 480 does not generate very many "logs" (i.e. the long large pieces which all conicals tend to generate to an extent).
4) Both the Vario and the HG One should probably be considered as stunning specialised espresso grinders, not for plunger use**. Both are also capable of Turkish coffee grinds and both have a very narrow particle spread compared to any of the "traditional light commercial" grinders mentioned earlier in this thread. Kinda shows where their "sweet spot" is. In the case of the Vario by the time it is doing the very coarse end of the espresso range its performance is noticeably lower (i.e. no better than any of the grinders listed above). I did not test the HG One beyond "VST espresso / fine grind", however it is unlikely to be a good plunger grinder "out of the box" for the same reason as the Vario.

For specialised domestic espresso, the only "relatively sanely priced" grinders are the Vario & HG One, however your EM480 will beat them noticeably when using your plunger*. I should have actually kept one of my 480's for my "modifed stirrer plunger". I have to use my Bo-ema (think large noisy commercial monster requiring earplugs) which is banished permanently from the house and is no better than the 480 at plunger grinding.

Hope this clarifies rather than confuses.


TampIt

plunger use**: Unless you buy burrs optimised for coarser grinds and then have truly woeful espresso... Both HG and Vario have that as an (incomprehensible?) option. Buying a really quality precision made bit of kit to grind stuff most grinders can do easily... Whatever, smile & nod...

Hi TampIt
I have just purchased a used Macap M4 stepped, and after a period of trial and error with the fineness/coarseness of the grind, I have come to the conclusion that the M4 is great for espresso, provided you turn the notches through a very small range depending on the bean, but as soon as one tries to coarsen the grind for plunger for example, particle size seems to become quite variable. It is hard to dial in. This could be a learning curve, though, but it is not such a problem with the EM0480. The EM0480 is fairly idiot-proof, which suits me to a tee.

[deco0028]

Hi deco0028

Having owned two EM480's until recently (and far too many other, mostly commercial grinders to remember) if you want to "upgrade" for domestic espresso the only two grinders I know of that you will probably be happy with are the manual HG One (played with and still still considering one) or a Mahlkonig Vario (I have two of them).

EM480 "upgrade" domestically: Assuming it is set up & cleaned properly, the EM480 puts a lot of mid priced commercial grinders to shame for espresso use. It is also a superb (and I do not use that word lightly) grinder for coarser grinds, unlike a number of more specialised espresso grinders.

FWIW, I look at it this way:-
1) All grinders have a "sweet spot" in their range.
2) Conicals (like the 480) tend to have a "two peak" particle spread, which traditional espresso making regards as a "very good thing". Some of the new concepts in espresso making validly call that into question (without getting into so called "3rd wave" stuff). Most of these traditional espresso grinders are hopeless at Turkish coffee grinding. Turkish grind is very fine indeed: I have even seen commercial grinder manuals telling you not to do it as the burrs receive a lot less lubrication and can overheat.
3) The EM480 also happens to be (by design?) very good at coarser grinds, just like a lot of other "really big conicals". Happily, unlike a lot of other conicals, the 480 does not generate very many "logs" (i.e. the long large pieces which all conicals tend to generate to an extent).
4) Both the Vario and the HG One should probably be considered as stunning specialised espresso grinders, not for plunger use**. Both are also capable of Turkish coffee grinds and both have a very narrow particle spread compared to any of the "traditional light commercial" grinders mentioned earlier in this thread. Kinda shows where their "sweet spot" is. In the case of the Vario by the time it is doing the very coarse end of the espresso range its performance is noticeably lower (i.e. no better than any of the grinders listed above). I did not test the HG One beyond "VST espresso / fine grind", however it is unlikely to be a good plunger grinder "out of the box" for the same reason as the Vario.

For specialised domestic espresso, the only "relatively sanely priced" grinders are the Vario & HG One, however your EM480 will beat them noticeably when using your plunger*. I should have actually kept one of my 480's for my "modifed stirrer plunger". I have to use my Bo-ema (think large noisy commercial monster requiring earplugs) which is banished permanently from the house and is no better than the 480 at plunger grinding.

Hope this clarifies rather than confuses.


TampIt

plunger use**: Unless you buy burrs optimised for coarser grinds and then have truly woeful espresso... Both HG and Vario have that as an (incomprehensible?) option. Buying a really quality precision made bit of kit to grind stuff most grinders can do easily... Whatever, smile & nod...

Thank you, TampIt.

[TampIt]

Thanks Yelta and mmm. I am in the category of not knowing any better with my Sunbeam, which is half the problem. How would I know if the other grinders are better, if I do not have a benchmark to compare the SB to?
Maybe ignorance is bliss. Should have stuck with instant coffee, and never should have started roasting. Now, my palate has been spoilt, and I want more of the good stuff!!!

Hi deco0028

Having owned two EM480's until recently (and far too many other, mostly commercial grinders to remember) if you want to "upgrade" for domestic espresso the only two grinders I know of that you will probably be happy with are the manual HG One (played with and still still considering one) or a Mahlkonig Vario (I have two of them).

EM480 "upgrade" domestically: Assuming it is set up & cleaned properly, the EM480 puts a lot of mid priced commercial grinders to shame for espresso use. It is also a superb (and I do not use that word lightly) grinder for coarser grinds, unlike a number of more specialised espresso grinders.

FWIW, I look at it this way:-
1) All grinders have a "sweet spot" in their range.
2) Conicals (like the 480) tend to have a "two peak" particle spread, which traditional espresso making regards as a "very good thing". Some of the new concepts in espresso making validly call that into question (without getting into so called "3rd wave" stuff). Most of these traditional espresso grinders are hopeless at Turkish coffee grinding. Turkish grind is very fine indeed: I have even seen commercial grinder manuals telling you not to do it as the burrs receive a lot less lubrication and can overheat.
3) The EM480 also happens to be (by design?) very good at coarser grinds, just like a lot of other "really big conicals". Happily, unlike a lot of other conicals, the 480 does not generate very many "logs" (i.e. the long large pieces which all conicals tend to generate to an extent).
4) Both the Vario and the HG One should probably be considered as stunning specialised espresso grinders, not for plunger use**. Both are also capable of Turkish coffee grinds and both have a very narrow particle spread compared to any of the "traditional light commercial" grinders mentioned earlier in this thread. Kinda shows where their "sweet spot" is. In the case of the Vario by the time it is doing the very coarse end of the espresso range its performance is noticeably lower (i.e. no better than any of the grinders listed above). I did not test the HG One beyond "VST espresso / fine grind", however it is unlikely to be a good plunger grinder "out of the box" for the same reason as the Vario.

For specialised domestic espresso, the only "relatively sanely priced" grinders are the Vario & HG One, however your EM480 will beat them noticeably when using your plunger*. I should have actually kept one of my 480's for my "modifed stirrer plunger". I have to use my Bo-ema (think large noisy commercial monster requiring earplugs) which is banished permanently from the house and is no better than the 480 at plunger grinding.

Hope this clarifies rather than confuses.


TampIt

plunger use**: Unless you buy burrs optimised for coarser grinds and then have truly woeful espresso... Both HG and Vario have that as an (incomprehensible?) option. Buying a really quality precision made bit of kit to grind stuff most grinders can do easily... Whatever, smile & nod...

[deco0028]

Devo as Yelta said start up a new threed and you'll get heaps of help�� but in short I'm looking at buying a new car...
A Toyota corolla and a VW GTI are both cars but VERY different. So are grinders��

Thanks Yelta and mmm. I am in the category of not knowing any better with my Sunbeam, which is half the problem. How would I know if the other grinders are better, if I do not have a benchmark to compare the SB to?
Maybe ignorance is bliss. Should have stuck with instant coffee, and never should have started roasting. Now, my palate has been spoilt, and I want more of the good stuff!!!

[mmmcoffee]

Devo as Yelta said start up a new threed and you'll get heaps of help�� but in short I'm looking at buying a new car...
A Toyota corolla and a VW GTI are both cars but VERY different. So are grinders��

[Yelta]

What if the Sunbeam EM0480 is in that list of potential grinders? I currently have one(EM0480), which is stepped, and I use the notches to grind for plunger coffee in the morning, and espresso(latte) in the arvo. Is the Sunbeam that much worse? I am considering a grinder upgrade, but am struggling to understand what I really do need, and if I need it at all. For me, speed of grind, consistency of grind would be the two factors to consider. Seeing as I use the grinder for both plunger and machine(EM6910), would a stepless be too complicated? I at least know I do not need a doser.

The fact is deco that the Sunbeam is not on the list, while the EM0480 is quite a good grinder for the price its not in the same class as the Compak K3, Macap M2M and Mazzer Mini.

If your happy with the Sunbeam stick with it, if your wondering what to upgrade too why not start a new thread asking the question, you will get a lot better response than you will here by asking the question out of context.

[deco0028]

Don't be seduced by the bigger is better school of thought Greenplastic, for home use commercial grinders are overkill and introduce another set of problems.

One of the three grinders on your original list will do everything you want and need.

What if the Sunbeam EM0480 is in that list of potential grinders? I currently have one(EM0480), which is stepped, and I use the notches to grind for plunger coffee in the morning, and espresso(latte) in the arvo. Is the Sunbeam that much worse? I am considering a grinder upgrade, but am struggling to understand what I really do need, and if I need it at all. For me, speed of grind, consistency of grind would be the two factors to consider. Seeing as I use the grinder for both plunger and machine(EM6910), would a stepless be too complicated? I at least know I do not need a doser.

[mmmcoffee]

I recently upgraded from a Rocky to mini Mazzer and I love the Mazzer!! Doser isnt an issue for me I only grind what I need each time but I find the doser great because while its grinding tithe doser I'm getting cups milk etc ready, then when grinding is done, dose, level, tamp and pull shot. But that's just my routine and what works for me!

Let's r honest in the eyes of "normal people" (whoever they are they think all of this in overkill. All of these grinders will be fantastic just come to personal preference on looks, colour, size and if u like doser or not. Don't stress too much just pick one, buy it and enjoy the fruits of its grinding labour!!

[DesigningByCoffee]

Hi GP
All great points here.
I've had great brews from an M2 and Silvia combo, and great brews from my E61 + Robur. Used doser & doserless. Both good - different techniques only difference really. Both clean and efficient.
Taste? As has been mentioned - not better, but different. FWIW in my experience my planar grinder (Macap M4) gave richer milk based drinks, while the big conical gives cleaner espresso. Anything from a compak/M2 up will give amazing coffee when you learn how to use it and use fresh beans … so really about how far the budget can stretch!

Happy shopping!
Matt

[Dimal]

Ah, thanks mate...

Very, very nice indeed....

Mal.

[Bosco_Lever]

Hi Mal,
The Machine is made by Bosco in Napoli.
It is the Sorrento version.
https://www.coffeeroasters.com.au/sh...rrento-1-group
BL.

[Dimal]

There is a clue in his user name !

I give up?

You mean it is made by a company called Bosco?

Mal.

[blend52]

Forgive my ignorance Bosco, but what make of Lever machine is that one in your avatar?

Mal.

There is a clue in his user name !