Compak k10

[Marc1]

Hi there! Love the site ...
I have been looking around for a good deal on second hand commercial machine and grinder.
Not for commercial use but want to play with a real machine. Currently using a Sunbeam EM7000 and a ginder EM0500.
The machine is sort of OK, the grinder is really inconsistent.

So following some good reviews on the Compak k10WBC grinder, I stumbled on a seller on line that sells the Compak k10 Conic (not WBC) new.
So was hoping that you guys tell me what is the difference (Stock is 18 month old from an ex Compak rep) and if it is worth buying odl stock with only 3 month warranty at $1100, considering the WBC is almost 2k.
I realise that from the boat anchor I am using to a compak it is a bit of a jump but hei ... if it fits.
For machine I am considering the Ponte Vecchio Lever.

Your help is appreciated!
Marc

[chokkidog]

Is it legit stock and not stolen? Is it 'as new' ? Parts, service and warranty?

The new Kompak K10 conical electronic is what I'd be looking at.

[Marc1]

It Is new, it is legit as confirmed by Compak themselves. It is an ex dealer that must have come into bad times or fallen out of grace and liquidating stock. The only concern is the short warranty. Compak says they should give me one year, anyway warranty from an ex dealer is worthless. Not sure if it is electronic or not. Only know it is 18 mth old.
Is there important difference with the WBC?

[bobbee]

Hi
I have a k10 non-WBC from 2005.
What do you need to know? It's the same burr set as the wbc version only a diffirent doser with tamper on it. The wbc version also has more polished aluminum parts.

[cleanCup]

I think the K10WBC is geared to grind a little slower then the standard K10.

[TOK]

... anyway warranty from an ex dealer is worthless.....Only know it is 18 mth old...

I have no idea where you are but if in Australia I am afraid that is in-correct ("...worthless guarantee...") and there is much more to the detail of this than meets the eye.

The new equipment guarantee is the responsibility of the importer and whether the importer is still dealing in the brand or not, he/she is still responsible.

What I read into your comments is that the dealer is selling at a heavily discounted rate in lieu of a reduced period of new equipment guarantee. If the dealer is not the importer, he cant reduce the standard period of guarantee because that is not his responsibility. And if he is the importer, then I guess it is his prerogative to make the offer to reduce the period in lieu of you receiving a very good discount. It uis then up to you whether you accept that or not, and I hope it is clearly noted in writing on the invoice of sale.

That is entirely separate to whatever the laws say about "statutory" warranty, and there are enough that will agree to something at the time to get a heavily discounted price, then will renig on their agreement with the vendor when they decide that the "statutory" stuff works in their favour sometime later...and that is why I mention that whatever is agreed should be clearly written on the invoice of sale.

I am also going to disagree that the unit is "18 months old". You have noted that it is new. It doesn't matter what the date of manufacture on the compliance plate on the grinder may indicate the grinder was built 18 months ago. If it is new in the box or even new on display and is still the current model and being soild as "new"....then the grinder is...."new", and not "18 months old".

Very little if anything will go wrong with a commercial coffee grinder except through wear and tear, and it is extremely rare for anything to go wrong with one under guarantee that would be due to a "warrantable problem". Essentially if is fully working at purchase, you have a goer whether it has a new equipment guarantee of any sort, or not.

To my way of thinking, the biggest difference in terms of your operating the grinder, between a so called WBC K10 model and a regular K10, will be the feel and operation and speed of delivery of grinds out of the doser unit.

On a personal note, I sit firmly in the camp of "yes it is overkill for home use". So even at a heavily discounted price, it is still expensive when you can have a perfectly good K3 for hundreds of dollars less. Depends really, on what you are *expecting* from the grinder.


Hope that helps.

[samuellaw178]

In my experience, rarely do you hear about commercial grinder failure even after running in cafe for years(burrs condition is another story haha), let alone new unused ones. Similar thought to Tok, even if you go shopping you'd never know how long the stock has been sitting, in this case the seller is just being upfront with you and let you decide, not something to be wary about. There's no battery of sort that decays with sitting time so it shouldn't be a problem. But whether the thought of buying an old stock sits well with the mind, that's another story. haha.

Won't comment on the statutory side of thing. But if in the unlikely case where there is any manufacture defect, 3 months is plenty enough to reveal it. So I'd say that's a pretty low risk overall.

The main differences for WBC/PB versus a regular K10, are mostly minor aesthethic and ergonomic. The regular has a one-piece doser lid, looks kinda ugly/unfinished if you take that off for single dosing. The grind setting marking is also on that doser piece, so adjustment is harder to do without the doser lid in place. There's also the tamper nose protruding on the regular K10 doser, which may be annoying to some and useless to most. Speed is slower on WBC spec but not sure how significant that is. Overall, WBC is more user friendly for home barista. Of course I'm biased because I have one and been using one. But that was my decision process when I was deciding whether the WBC spec is worth the extra money for me.

Easily the best grinder I've used and I have used many(Mazzer Super Jolly,doser & E, Major & Mini doser, Anfim Best, Lelit doserless, Rosco mini, Lido, Pharos etc). I use the K10 for single dosing and it was plenty consistent without the need for dialing in most of the time. Retention is lesser than most home grinders when used for single dosing.

The comment about taste is quite subjective. There's definitely difference, but does it really matter that depends on the individual (whether can you taste it or do you even care). As a short black drinker myself, my personal experience is the big conical grinder does deliver in the cup but of course you'd have to take care of other aspect as well (beans, dosing, barista techniques etc).

[thebookfreak58]

+1 re WBC for home use.

[Marc1]

Thank you all for your kind replies,
TOK, I am in Sydney. My comments in relation to useless warranty... I am aware of the legislation regulating warranty for new equipment, however when I came across this, a new grinder with 3 month warranty instead of the one year offered by Compak, I contacted them only to hear that the seller is their ex dealer, that they know he is selling at a discount and that he is selling old stock. If by old it means outdated model or simply 18 month old as they say I don't know. After all if the product is imported, it is probably already one or more years old by the time it comes here, so yes that does not really matter, it could be sour talk by Compak, who knows.
However back to the warranty, a warranty is only as good as your ability to return the faulty item and get another one in exchange. if there is no entity to get back to and the importer states, as they stated to me, that "the warranty sits with the dealer and not with us" and also that "he should give you one year and not 3 month" clearly there is something going on. So if tomorrow, in the (remote according to you guys) chance that something does go wrong, my chances to find this phantom dealer for satisfaction are iffy and my chances to go back to Compak rather slim judging from this my first contact with them.
So yes, it boils down to price. Is it worth to pay $1100 for a new Compak k10 Conic and probably no warranty, or pay the going price $1500 or so?
PS
What about a second hand WBC one/two year old home use ?

[TOK]

Hi there.

a) yes...sour grapes. This is not "old stock"...you might buy a new grinder today from someone else, at full price with nfull guarantee, and it could still have an 18 month old build date. It means nothing in the coffee equipment industry, and is not a car where they change models every year or every other year. This build date is irrelevant in this case, please ignore.

b) The IMPORTER carries the warranty. It doesnt matter if it has stopped importing this brand. As long as the import business is still trading, it is STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WARRANTY in Australia. It supports the retail vendor, if the retail vendor is a separate entity. End of story. If the importer is still trading even if it is selling tiddley winks instead of grinders, then it is still the one you return the grinder to IF there is a problem, and it is still responsible for the warranty. There is nothing IFFY about it. If the grinder is bought from an independent retailer, it is still up to the importer to tell you where else to take the grinder for repair whether it is warrantale or not.

The is a very simple scenario:
Forget the build date it is irrelevant and the grinder is NEW.
You have been offered a heavily discounted new item, and in exchange the vendor wants you to accept a shorter period of warranty. The reason the vendor is doing this is irrelevant.
It's up to you whether you accept the offer or not.

Were I the vendor, I would note in writing on the Bill of Sale (invoice), that you accepted an offer to pay a heavily discounted price in lieu of accepting a shorter period of warranty. Should you decide to make a claim after the period of warranty has expired, you would need to pay the difference between the RRP at the time of your purchase, and the discounted price you paid, in order to reinstate or extend the agreed period of warranty to the regular period eg 12 months, to allow you to make the claim. And you would be asked to sign the invoice.

That is not legal stuff, just moral stuff between people that make deals together...

This is because, there are plenty of people that will agree to anything to get a heavily discounted price, but they will then proceed to ignore what they agreed to IF the sheet hits the fan sometime after.

Not saying you would do that, but I have had enough experience with stuff happening...

In conclusion., and this is only my opinion:

Its a good price for a *volume* cafe grinder. If I was buying for a cafe I would seriously consider it.
Its not a good home grinder due to size and management etc.
If you wanted to go ahead for your home use, the WBC version is definitely a much better option than the regular K10 as it will be easier to operate/manage for small volume use.
It is extremely unlikely for any commercial grinder to suffer a real "warrantable" problem (ie one that is due to real life *defective manufacturing or assembly*) ergo it wouldnt matter if it was only guaranteed for 1 day, or for 3 years, because warrantale claims on these pieces of equipment are extremely rare.

All of that said, I still wouldnt have one in my kitchen. It's like buying a prime mover for the wife to take the 2 children to school each morning. Overkill, and reiterating, that's just my opinion.

Hope that helps.

[Marc1]

Prime mover for the wife, haha like the simile ... now, do you recommend Scania or Mack ?

Thanks again
Marc

[TOK]

Actually my first choice would be a Peterbuilt, and after that a Mack ! Dont want no pussy european models !