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  • Mahlkonig K30

    Good morning!

    After recently purchasing a Robur and selling it due to the grind retention being a little bit too high for my personal preference I've sat back recently and done a lot of research. Inadvertently my attention has been pointed at the above mentioned K30 grinder, I've seen a video of it only requiring 2-5g of wastage until a new bean or grind adjustment is actually seen in the portafilter. I've been on every step of the upgraditis ladder starting with the Breville smart grinder > Mazzer Mini > Mazzer Super Jolly > Kony > Robur. I've been very happy with the quality of all these grinders but since I've started taking my roasting seriously single dosing is now a very high priority for me.

    My question is, has anyone here had any direct experience with this grinder and may be able to give me some of their personal feedback or thoughts?

    I've noticed this grinder has quite a large following in the states but is completely disregarded here in Australia. Some people are reporting that they are getting extraction yields on par with the large conical family of grinders, although I question their analysis procedures and wonder if they are biased or fudging some of the stats.

    When I roast I always separate my beans and I love rotating them through my machine, I'm currently using my Breville Smart Grinder with my GS3 which is a bit of a chop out, but to be completely honest it's actually still producing some fantastic coffee. Although the Breville is only maintaining it's position on the bench for filter/pour over duties because it only holds 2-3 grams of retention which is fantastic for single dosing random coffees. If it means that I just go back to a medium sized grinder Macap/Mazzer for my blends and continue with the Smart Grinder for single dosing I may have to continue with that.

    Ps, I know it's an ugly duckling but looks aren't very high on my list.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Have you considered the Compak E or F 10 Conics, (68mm conical) Brendogs?

    K30 has planar burrs, so you are going into flat country with that one.

    Not completely disregarded tho'.... there was one on shot duty at CS Headquarters for ages and one of my

    clients had 5 on the bench. They moved to 5 Robur-e's tho', when they opened a second venue.

    For me, as a roaster, the cup is way more important than any other considerations. Cheers.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've looked at them chokki, I understand I'm going back a step with it being a flat burr but as I said the main concern is getting a good quality grind with a reduced retention.

      I'd love to get a EK43 but it's too big and I do find the shots to be a little thin on those grinders, the one and only reason I like them is because there is almost no grind retention but in terms of usability it's completely manual and has no dosing function so it's on the bottom of my list.

      The K30 is showing some promising stats that I've been reading through and hence why I'm asking about them.

      I would be interested in knowing how your cafe found them, by all accounts the K30 doses just as fast as a Robur E so I would wonder why your customer installed Robur's on the second cafe fitout, what were the pros and cons for the decisions made? In terms of the extraction yields, if they are showing very similar figures to the Robur it surely needs to be on any shortlist. What are your thoughts on the taste of your coffee through their machines? Obviously you are drinking your coffee through your Robur at home, how does it compare when you go on site and taste it through their setup? A little bit thinner, fuller, sour, sweeter etc..

      I'm intrigued to know what your thoughts are.

      Comment


      • #4
        Got a few things to do Brendogs, including cranking up the roaster for some late orders.

        Will try to get back to your question a bit later.... it needs more time than what I have, just now. Cheers

        Comment


        • #5
          Perhaps I can be of some assistance with perspectives as tempered from my own experiences?

          “...I understand I'm going back a step with it being a flat burr...” ???

          Afraid NOT. That is nothing more than an internet generated furphy.

          Both planar and conical burrs have their place in coffee land and when used accordingly are both excellent. Planar or FLAT grinding plates or burrs are designed for low to medium volume cafe use and specifically for establishments that sell traditional espresso. Ergo, in that scenario flat / planar plate / burr grinders are excellent and result in traditional espresso with the required “bottom end” (body).

          The K30 is designed specifically for the above and is an excellent cafe grinder.....if you want to pay the ransom for your in home use and are prepared to suffer the consequences of using it out of its optimum design environment.

          “...I'd love to get a EK43 but...”

          Well actually, no.... don’t get carried away with the stuff that a vocal minority of anonymous participants post up in forums. As you state in a roundabout way, it’s even less suitable for home use than the K30, and is designed specifically as a bench top deli grinder. Excellent if used as intended, otherwise....???

          “...I would wonder why your customer installed Robur's on the second cafe fitout, what were the pros and cons for the decisions made...”

          Without knowing the specifics of that particular situation, there is usually only one answer in general terms to that despite that many can’t seem to be able to handle it...that being, that the client has succumbed to peer group / “trust network” pressure that nothing short of a Robur will do....for anything....if you want to show that you “care” about the coffee. There are plenty of cafes out there that don’t do a kilo over 30 to 40 a week, and have the requisite 3 Roburs next to their machine. Many call that a breathtaking waste of money, especially the 3rd in line Robur that is catering to maybe 0.5kg of decaff per week.

          If I were to clarify, what that means is that it’s actually more to do with “caring” to portray the “coffee politically correct” image to the punters, than “caring” about the coffee.

          “...Obviously you are drinking your coffee through your Robur at home, how does it compare when you go on site and taste it through their setup? A little bit thinner, fuller, sour, sweeter etc..”

          Can’t speak for Chokki but my take on it would be that it is difficult to make such comparisons without doing side by side comparisons on the spot with the same gear, beans, operator, WATER SUPPLY and techniques used. In the end, when you go out on site and check that all is well, it is about simply making sure that the *system as a whole at that location* is operating / performing at optimum given the beans/gear/water/setup and operators. Not about trying to compare that to something else in your memory (which can be “fooled” without the side by side comparo’s), not to mention that in the end, what does it mean (if one is "...A little bit thinner, fuller, sour, sweeter etc..than the other...."...or not)?

          “...I'm intrigued to know what your thoughts are...”

          Hope to have provided a lateral and hopefully informative perspective, and in the end if you like the K30 what does it matter what it compares to. It is an excellent grinder if you are prepared to go with whatever idiosyncracies it may have given you are using an auto function cafe grinder in a home use situation, and if you are prepared to pay the ransom.

          If you want it, buy it, and and enjoy the K30 for what it is, then turn it over again when you are ready for the next round of experiences.

          Hope that helps.

          Comment


          • #6
            Always enjoy your insights A...

            Mal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Brendogs- I've had my Elektra Nino for around one year now. Large conical. Looks awesome on the bench and built like it's going to be found in some archeological dig in 500 years from now. Virtually no retention. Taste profiles have been compared to Robur, although I haven't personally owned a Robur. Doses a double in around 4 seconds. May be worth looking at if retention was the key reason you gave up the Robur.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi there.

                Just some random thoughts:

                The Robur is designed as an ultra high volume cafe grinder. That is, its primary design function is to grind lots of beans without overheating and stopping. The cup characteristics that result from that are shall we say, secondary to the primary objective.

                That largely anonymous commentators with largely unknown bona fides pick it up in the "trust network" to make it the standard to which others should be compared, in terms of the result in the cup, means what? It differs....but what does that mean? Does it mean that other design grinders are not as "good"? What does that say about the silent majority of people that really enjoy and are perfectly happy with their traditional espresso made with different grinders most of them having FLAT plates?

                Additionally, it can only be up to an individual to decide for themselves, if they wish to have a 30 or 35 or whatever kilo piece of equipment that stands about 3 foot tall on their kitchen bench, for their 2 cups of coffee a day. For me, whatever it retains is entirely irrelevant in that it is being used entirely out of context, and anyone that wants one has to, to quote a phrase...."deal with it".

                As far as I am aware and happy to be corrected, the Nino is most probably built on the Macap M7K which can be had for a fraction of the price of the Nino if a comparable grind quality is the brief. Don't know anything about the retention but again, you have to live with what you get when you buy what you wanted to buy and use it in a context which is not what was intended by the designer / manufacturer.

                People should buy what they like, but with the proviso of having made their decision with eyes wide open instead of being manipulated by the trust network to only look at what is currently de rigeur. After that, it's all good

                Hope that helps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  TOK- I hadn't viewed the Macap M7K before, and it may well appeal to some. I think they are substantially different grinders however. The Macap M7K has a doser, weighs 16kg, and has a 400 Watt Motor. The Nino is doserless (best in class design IMHO), weighs 28kg, and has a 1000 watts air-cooled motor.

                  I agree, that for the average home user, any titan conical is going to produce a fairly similar result. Apart from price (clearly an important factor)- it will then come down to size (what can one live with), aesthetics, concerns over grind retention, and how much one values "tank-like" qualities. I'm a sucker for the last three, hence my acquisition.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gavisconi007 View Post
                    TOK- I hadn't viewed the Macap M7K before, and it may well appeal to some. I think they are substantially different grinders however. The Macap M7K has a doser, weighs 16kg, and has a 400 Watt Motor. The Nino is doserless (best in class design IMHO), weighs 28kg, and has a 1000 watts air-cooled motor
                    Yes- the M7D would be a logical competitor. If it's conical you choose, motor size, cooling etc are completely irrelevant in the home environment. We need to be mindful that this class is designed to do many kilos per day, nit 1kg/week. The nino looks fine, but have no doubt that there is a significant ransom payable because of the brand name. TOK was on the money in his earlier post...
                    Last edited by TC; 22 July 2015, 09:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                      Yes- the M7D would be the logical competitor. If it's conical you choose, motor size, cooling etc are completely irrelevant in the home environment. We need to be mindful that this class is designed to do many kilos per day, nit 1kg/week. The nino looks fine, but have no doubt that there is a significant ransom payable because of the brand name. TOK was on the money in his earlier post...
                      Thanks Chris

                      I agree they are both fit for purpose, although I was mainly clarifying that the Nino is NOT at all built on the Macap M7D. They are two entirely different beasts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chokkidog View Post

                        K30 has planar burrs, so you are going into flat country with that one.

                        Not completely disregarded tho'.... there was one on shot duty at CS Headquarters for ages and one of my

                        clients had 5 on the bench. They moved to 5 Robur-e's tho', when they opened a second venue.
                        Going into 'flat country' shouldn't be seen as going 'backwards', it's just a fork in the road. I enjoyed a lot of great coffee on Andy's K30.

                        Why did they move to Roburs? Their LM machine supplier also supplies Mazzers, amongst other brands, so a good deal

                        was in the offing. I think they got the value of two grinders as discount. They were more than happy with the results. The Roburs also have a (slightly)

                        smaller footprint, without the spill tray. 5 x K30's took up a lot of space.

                        Originally posted by TOK View Post

                        Can’t speak for Chokki but my take on it would be that it is difficult to make such comparisons without doing side by side comparisons on the spot with the same gear, beans, operator, WATER SUPPLY and techniques used. In the end, when you go out on site and check that all is well, it is about simply making sure that the *system as a whole at that location* is operating / performing at optimum given the beans/gear/water/setup and operators. Not about trying to compare that to something else in your memory (which can be “fooled” without the side by side comparo’s), not to mention that in the end, what does it mean (if one is "...A little bit thinner, fuller, sour, sweeter etc..than the other...."...or not)?...... in the end if you like the K30 what does it matter what it compares to. It is an excellent grinder if you are prepared to go with whatever idiosyncracies it may have given you are using an auto function cafe grinder in a home use situation

                        If you want it, buy it, and and enjoy the K30 for what it is, then turn it over again when you are ready for the next round of experiences.
                        TOK is on the money, here. Also, I rarely had one of my own brews there. Fortunately, my coffee was only on when one of two gun baristas was on duty; I

                        found I was able to trust them to do my beans justice. I was a permanent guest roaster there until I withdrew my product (another story and not related to

                        grinders) but my coffee wasn't always on pour when I was there.

                        I mainly took advantage of being able to sample roasts from the other Melbourne roasters who were on rotation in three of the grinders. House blends in the

                        other two, sometimes an SO.

                        Thanks TOK, saved me a bunch of two finger typing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the advice guys,

                          TOK, in regards to your insight. As I was explaining, I have been through the large majority of flat burr setups and I was never really disappointed with the output of them at all! It was more so reading into other products and hearing other peoples glamour stories of how much X product made Y coffee taste 10 times better blah blah. I'm an absolute sucker for upgrading, I actually think it's a new found condition. We should open another section in the forum and call it GP Visit's and the first thread will be Chronic Upgraditis Sufferers. Fortunately for me I have a wad of cash from selling my Robur and can purchase almost every grinder on the market (knowing the k30 costs more) with that so I'm not overly fussed, the only difference this time is I've experienced a large chunk of the market and can make a much more educated decision based on my requirements.

                          Chokki, that was a little of a deflated response haha! I was expecting something along the lines of "Well they weren't overly happy with the speed, or they were messy etc etc" Instead they just got a good deal on Robur's

                          Gavisconi007, the Nino actually hasn't even been on my list. I'll spend the night reading into whatever information I can find on it. Thanks for that suggestion!

                          I completely understand that all these grinders are specifically designed for high volume commercial situations, that's obviously where 90% of their market sales lie. It's the dilemma of us coffee snobs to try and crowbar a high volume monster onto our kitchen benches. I am going to test drive a K30 in the next week or so, once I've got a better insight I can make my decision based on those findings.

                          I'll keep you all posted once I've had a good play on this machine. It should be interesting!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Please do brendogs.

                            I can relate to the upgraditis.... you're certainly not on your own there. :-D

                            I'd still encourage you to check out the Compak conicals. I'm in the process of doing the same and am about to

                            (hopefully) place one in a clients café.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brendogs View Post
                              It was more so reading into other products and hearing other peoples glamour stories of how much X product made Y coffee taste 10 times better blah blah.
                              Haha, I was exactly in your spot some time ago. But after all the upgraditis and experiencing the difference myself, I completely agree with everyone here that's not the case. Flat and conical produce slightly different taste profile, but none is superior than another - only different and only if you are not pouring the shot into a laar-tay or flat white. I've been through a lot of grinders and eventually come back to a big conical (Compak K10 PB), because it's (i) more forgiving and easier to get good pours (ii) almost no fussing with dialing in day-to-day and very little bean-to-bean (iii) dosered setup (and lower rpm) can be adapted to single dosing and almost zero retention (purging 1g-2g?not for me ;p) (iv) when used way below the designed usage it would under commercial, these things last almost forever, that spells awesome for me.....and the taste is an icing on the cake, which is obviously welcomed by me too. The nuances presented by big conical are more noticable and last longer, but at the expense of heightened brightness. Better? Probably not. But if you like it, why not?

                              K30 users reported that it is not suitable for single dosing if that's what your plan is (home barista is a good resource). Same for the Elektra Nino. That's probably due to the fast burrs rotation. They're best run with a beans-loaded hopper. But they're a good walk up grinder - purge, grind and go. No need to weigh and load the beans. But you sacrifice the ability to grind different beans on the same day (that's the greatest advantage of single dosing IMO).
                              Last edited by samuellaw178; 23 July 2015, 11:38 AM.

                              Comment

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