Fiorenzato F6 not Grinding Fine Enough

[techy291]

I purchased a used Saeco Hercules which is a rebranded Fiorenzato F6

I replaced the bearings and burrs.

However, I am having a heck of a time getting it to grind fine enough.

i have adjusted the collar to what I believe to be the zero point - (i.e., I can hear the upper and lower burr touching but the motor still spins - with the hopper off and grinder unplugged I can turn it by hand but can feel the friction - if I tighten just a little more it can't be turned by hand.)

I'm not keen on adjusting the collar any tighter - don't want metal grinds in my coffee

At this point, the ground coffee is just not fine enough for espresso. I've gone through about 2 pounds of supermarket coffee. I understand that new burrs need to be "seasoned" but things don't seem to be improving. Could it be a "seasoning" issue? I would have thought with the burrs touching it would be grinding too fine.

One thing I should mention is that I bought the burrs on ebay from a seller located in Italy. However, they are definitely not OEM....they came in very generic packaging.

I may purchase another set of burrs but wonder if I should just cut my losses...

I posted here because Fiorenzato seems to have more significant presence in Australia than in North America (I'm located in Canada)

Any help/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[sprezzatura]

How's your espresso machine running? Maybe your grinder's functioning ok?

[techy291]

My espresso machine produces very enjoyable espresso when using beans ground with my Rancilio Rocky. I bought the Saeco/Fiorenzato because I am trying to take it to the next level. FWIW the espresso machine is a Rancilio Tecna DE which I rebuilt.

When I say that the Fiorenzato is not grinding fine enough I am basing this mostly on the appearance and texture (it looks and feels coarse) of the ground coffee compared to what the Rocky produces. I have attempted to pull a shot with coffee ground with the Fiorenzato but get the predictable watery swill.

[Dimal]

Welcome "techy291"....

Is there any chance that the stationary burr has been installed at anything other than perfectly flat against the burr-carrier?
If a coffee grain or two has been trapped underneath the burr, or the burr has caught up on the side of the rebated section of the burr carrier, this might explain why the burrs can be made to 'touch' but yet are unable to grind fine enough...

Mal.

[kesa32]

Agree with mal, also , l remember reading somewhere about a person putting new burrs in , and it was really slow to grind compared to the originals ( don't remember about the quality) , turned out the burrs were a different design to the original and so the guy sourced the proper burrs and all was good....

[techy291]

So new burrs it is…here is some background info:

When I got the grinder, the first thing I did after thoroughly cleaning was to order new burrs. The grinder had been stored in a relatively humid location (a basement) with unground beans in it and ground coffee in the doser, I suspect for years. The coffee in it had attracted moisture (it was even mouldy) and the burrs were in bad shape.

When the new burrs arrived I compared them to the old - same diameter and thickness, the holes lined up and the burr pattern seemed to be the same from what I could tell given the condition of the old burrs. However, I did notice that when installed, the burrs did not sit flat against either the stationary or rotating burr carrier. The circular ridge on the non grinding side was not quite the correct size - I believe that the ridge on the carrier is supposed to sit inside the ridge on the burr. This resulted in them being about 0.5 mm off being level. I tried grinding with that setup and could not get it fine enough. It also became apparent that the grinder was much too noisy so I decided to replace the bearings. I also thought the bad bearings were contributing to the grinding problem. Incidentally, the machine was manufactured in November of 2006 but I don`t think it saw too much use. I think the bearings failed because it sat unused for so long in that basement, not because of over use.

The new bearings dramatically reduced the noise level. I attempted to address the ill-fitting burr problem by using shims (in the form of thin plastic strips) to make them as level as possible. Using a micrometer, the thickness of the mounted burr plus the burr carrier is even all around the burr to within 0.10 to 0.15 mm. I had hoped that this would not have been significant enough to matter.

This is where I am at now – new bearings, new (shimmed) burrs and a grinder than still won’t grind fine enough.

So I am going to purchase another set of burrs from a different (more legitimate) source.

I’m going to try to find a local parts supplier so that I can test fit the burrs to the burr carriers before purchasing.

Thanks for all your responses - I will post the results.

Greg

[Dimal]

G'day Greg...

From what you've written above, I'd say that a set of new 'original' burrs will fix the problem. When grinding for espresso, you're talking clearances measured in Microns, so you can see why you were still experiencing problems....

Should be like a new grinder when the new burrs are fitted, after all the work you've done....

All the best,
Mal.

[techy291]

Thanks for your encouragement

I have my fingers crossed...

[kesa32]

Any luck ??

[techy291]

I don't have the new burrs yet. I'm located in Toronto, Canada and am waiting for them to be restocked at a local espresso parts supplier. They have a storefront counter and I plan on taking the upper burr carrier with me so I can test fit the burrs before purchasing.

Based on the part number they provided, the burrs are manufactured by LF which I understand to be a large European manufacturer but I don't know if they are an OEM supplier. My queries to Fiorenzato MC asking for parts information have gone unanswered...

[kesa32]

Ok , hopefully this will work out for you , maybe they have a picture of the burr you could check out as well ?

I could take a picture of mine later in the week if that'd help ( it grinds well ) , though l have no idea as to the burrs make that's in it as l only recently purchased it from a cafe that was closing down

[techy291]

Thanks for your offer but I don't think i'll know for sure until I have the burrs in hand. The ill-fitting burrs I bought on ebay are VERY similar looking to burrs the grinder came with and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a picture.

FWIW, the ebay listing I used indicates the burrs are suitable for an F6 and a Mazzer Major. I later noticed that the Cross Reference pages on the cafeparts.com website lists different third-party (e.g., LF, Nuova Ricambi) part numbers for the F6 and Major so I'm hopeful that my ebay burrs (which didn't show any manufacturer or part number) don't account for the subtle differences between the two and that using F6 specific burrs will solve my problem.

[kesa32]

Hi, if you get original burrs and everything is parallel it just has to work ,,,, they're a good grinder and usually give great results ( similar to the Major )

[techy291]

Eureka!

The new burrs arrived yesterday and I am pleased to report that they fit precisely the way they should and that I am able to grind too fine! I am looking forward to calibrating the grinder so that I get just the grind I need.

When I put up my original post, I didn't realize that the burrs were (supposed to be) manufactured to such fine tolerances and was worried I had a bigger problem. The responders here convinced me the burrs were the problem and they were correct!

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement.

Greg

[Dimal]

Great news Greg...

Lots of excellent espresso ahead of you now...

Mal.