Profitec Pro T64 review (2016)

[Magic_Matt]

Thank you both for the comparison!
I guess when it comes to the ECM vs Profitec they are very similar and comes down to mostly aesthetics and the way they operate.

Exactly.

I initially purchased the ECM S-64, but had second thoughts and traded up to the V-Titan. Things I preferred were the metal grind adjustment gear, funnel (same as on the Profi) and hands-free portafilter holder with single 'nudge' button.

The aesthetics was the single biggest factor, though - the V-Titatn is quite simply stunning whereas the Profitec looks distinctively pragmatic in design, to my eye.

In practice, I don't use the portafilter holder or nudge button as I dose into a dosing cup; so the Profi's button arrangement would probably be at least as practical.

Of the three (ECM S-64, ECM V-Titan, Profitec Pro 64) the Profitec would be the smart money.

Can't comment on the fausto except to say it has many fans and a solid pedigree.

[readeral]

FWIW, things I like about the Fausto, and none of these are dealbreakers:

- the display shows more at first glance, and at eye level.
- the portafilter holder doesn't rely on spouts to keep the portafilter at a suitable angle. Although it would need spouts to avoid lateral movement I think - I didn't get a chance to try a bottomless portafilter on it, someone else could weigh in on this point.
- the switch and cord is side mounted, rather than rear

[readeral]

Thank you both for the comparison!
I guess when it comes to the ECM vs Profitec they are very similar and comes down to mostly aesthetics and the way they operate. The Fausto is more of a different machine, I'm not very impressed with its operation.

How would you say they all compare in noise? I thought the Fausto was quite noisy but maybe they are all around the same level?

I personally think they're about the same level, after working with the Fausto for about two hours (whereas I live with the Profitec every day) - so maybe I'm not as good a judge. But I don't think it'll be different enough to swing a decision.

If anything, the ECM and Fausto will probably be marginally quieter, because they have more body to absorb the motor noise - but most of the noise comes from the crushing beans, and that noise won't be contained by the grinder.

Your best defence against noise is getting it over and done with quicker, and given the Fausto will take 40% longer to grind, the quicker options are your friend here.

[Tanax]

So the T64 and V-Titan are essentially the same grinding mechanism (450W, 64mm burrs, 1400rpm, same controller) with different bodies. The V-Titan has titanium burrs - that doesn't improve the grind, just makes the burrs more durable for commercial settings (unnecessary for home), and other parts are made of different materials. So the difference is down to whether you want a button on top for grinding, or push with the portafilter... and have a preference for round or square footprint.
They compare equally in result, just differ in workflow.

The Fausto obviously can't be so easily compared, because it's out of a completely different factory. It's got 65mm burrs (bigger), but for some reason is about 3 seconds slower on the grind. When I've used a Fausto, I found the fineness setting difficult to use, as you can't see the burr collar change as you change the nob, and getting a sense of relative change was a bit tricky. Also being accurate in your change requires a bit more concentration. I didn't ever work out if you can get the funnel cover off - I can do this easily on my Profitec, but the Fausto seemed screwed down, maybe because of its controls being mounted on that cover. That would annoy the heck out of me.

Grind quality was just as acceptable as the Profitec and ECM options, so again it's a question of workflow and speed.

Hope that helps.

I picked up a Pro T64 on the weekend and it is amazing. I was told it's from the same factory as the ECM grinders but with a Pro 700 it's great for matching. It's a really well built grinder, it grinds fast and it looks amazing with the Perspex side panel inserts. It's also the tidiest grinder I have owned and I can finally grind and leave my bench entirely clean.

Thank you both for the comparison!
I guess when it comes to the ECM vs Profitec they are very similar and comes down to mostly aesthetics and the way they operate. The Fausto is more of a different machine, I'm not very impressed with its operation.

How would you say they all compare in noise? I thought the Fausto was quite noisy but maybe they are all around the same level?

[readeral]

So the T64 and V-Titan are essentially the same grinding mechanism (450W, 64mm burrs, 1400rpm, same controller) with different bodies. The V-Titan has titanium burrs - that doesn't improve the grind, just makes the burrs more durable for commercial settings (unnecessary for home), and other parts are made of different materials. So the difference is down to whether you want a button on top for grinding, or push with the portafilter... and have a preference for round or square footprint.
They compare equally in result, just differ in workflow.

The Fausto obviously can't be so easily compared, because it's out of a completely different factory. It's got 65mm burrs (bigger), but for some reason is about 3 seconds slower on the grind. When I've used a Fausto, I found the fineness setting difficult to use, as you can't see the burr collar change as you change the nob, and getting a sense of relative change was a bit tricky. Also being accurate in your change requires a bit more concentration. I didn't ever work out if you can get the funnel cover off - I can do this easily on my Profitec, but the Fausto seemed screwed down, maybe because of its controls being mounted on that cover. That would annoy the heck out of me.

Grind quality was just as acceptable as the Profitec and ECM options, so again it's a question of workflow and speed.

Hope that helps.

[Tanax]

How would you say the Profitec Pro T64 compares to ECM V-Titan 64 and the Rocket Fausto? T64 is the cheapest of the bunch here in Sweden, where Fausto and V-Titan are similarly priced.

[Magic_Matt]

It's funny; I remember researching the Profi/ECM grinders and finding a thread on a UK forum - all the responses were very dismissive and pointed to a popular grinder (that I haven't heard of before or since...).

Shame for them as it's great bang-for-buck IMO!

[MediumRoastSteam]

Hello there! I am also the owner of the Pro t64 grinder and I like it a lot. I've been trying to search for info regarding this grinder, but it seems that here is where there is the most, so I joined this forum, as it's not that popular in the UK Coffee Forums in England where I am an active member.

@******_Coffee, I think I have found the thread/post you refer it to, see post #18.

Mazzer Mini E - simple grid mod

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

Regards,

Alberto

[readeral]

Profitec Pro T64 review (2016)

After nearly a year of this grinder, my thoughts on retention are as follows:
Measuring retention would only go part of the way of answering the _effect_ of retention. The way the chute works is moving from narrow at the burr end to broader and higher at the anti-static grid. What this means is that the grinder retains more stale grounds than are actually throughput into the portafilter at any given time.
So for example, it may retain up to 10g of coffee, but only 5g will be pushed through on first use, and then 1g on second use etc.. And it's because coffee that expands upwards toward the lower end of the chute in my observation moves slower than the stuff spitting from the bottom of the grid.

Effectively what I'm saying is: I purge 5g (2 seconds) before my first coffee of the day, and that's sufficient (or in excess) of what is required for consistent shots thereafter. I use 500g of coffee a week, so I load my hopper with no qualms about diminishing freshness.

When I'm cleaning out my grinder I may actually have up to 12g of coffee retained after my hopper is empty.

This means that it is usable for single dosing, but you're gonna be dealing with static as you'll have to remove the grid (very easy, done with an Allen key). You likely can't effectively single dose in this grinder with the grid in place.
This is the same with almost every grinder of this sort on the market, but at least it has it over the Mazzer options in that removing the grid is not a permanent/destructive process.

This also means you should clean out the grind chute every time you change bean type for the cleanest flavours, but it's not necessary.

[herzog]

Profitec Pro T64 review (2016)

Any thoughts on, or attempts to measure retention?

Since you asked... Not really. Visually there's definitely a few grams of grounds held behind the splitter grid after a grind.

So the first shot of the day is going to have maybe 15% yesterday's grounds mixed in with the fresh stuff.

But you know what, I don't use a scale, or single dose or any of those things. Life is too short.

My main instruments are the Mk 1 eyeball and the tastebuds. And those are telling me the results are good.

[rynogee]

Thanks for the detailed review OP. I've recently picked up one of these, and have been very happy with it so far.

(It replaces a trusty Macap M4, which has now gone to another CS'er after a big response to my FS post. Pre-loved Macaps are obviously in high demand!)

So the T64 is quite a different - faster, doserless, and timed. Quite a change to my workflow.

It produces a perfectly formed mound of fluffy grounds in the basket with very little mess. The PF holder is one of those things where you wonder how you did without it before. Great feature.

Speed wise, I'm currently dosing out into a double basket in 6.9 seconds. Having the PF Holder means you can keep going on other tasks while it's dosing. It's also very tidy - the grounds tend to land accurately in the basket with very little waste in the grounds tray.

Running it in, I switched to the bottomless portafilter for a couple of days until I had it dialled in comfortably, then shifted back to my preferred double spouter.

Shots are now extremely consistent, showing excellent mottling, and the taste is fantastic (using Dibartoli house blend ATM).

I also like the physical compactness of the machine. It provides the speed and output quality associated with much larger machines, without the ungainly appearance of some of the large grinders in a domestic setting. It's roughly the same height as the cup rails on top of the Pro 700.

Two thumbs up.

Any thoughts on, or attempts to measure retention?

[herzog]

Thanks for the detailed review OP. I've recently picked up one of these, and have been very happy with it so far.

(It replaces a trusty Macap M4, which has now gone to another CS'er after a big response to my FS post. Pre-loved Macaps are obviously in high demand!)

So the T64 is quite a different - faster, doserless, and timed. Quite a change to my workflow.

It produces a perfectly formed mound of fluffy grounds in the basket with very little mess. The PF holder is one of those things where you wonder how you did without it before. Great feature.

Speed wise, I'm currently dosing out into a double basket in 6.9 seconds. Having the PF Holder means you can keep going on other tasks while it's dosing. It's also very tidy - the grounds tend to land accurately in the basket with very little waste in the grounds tray.

Running it in, I switched to the bottomless portafilter for a couple of days until I had it dialled in comfortably, then shifted back to my preferred double spouter.

Shots are now extremely consistent, showing excellent mottling, and the taste is fantastic (using Dibartoli house blend ATM).

I also like the physical compactness of the machine. It provides the speed and output quality associated with much larger machines, without the ungainly appearance of some of the large grinders in a domestic setting. It's roughly the same height as the cup rails on top of the Pro 700.

Two thumbs up.

[bschucha]

True enough, guys. Makes sense that there are many variables at play which would cause it to be quite different from one instance to another. Thanks for the reminder tho
Cheers,

Ben

[readeral]

Yeah that's my opinion on the whole thing. I would have been very surprised if he had landed on 5.

[Dimal]

G'day Guys...

The notches and numbers on a grinder's adjustment dial are not an absolute reference, but a relative one. Not really practical to try and emulate the performance of your grinder with that of another by using the same 'numbers' or 'notches'...
It's nothing more than a fluke if it happens to work out....

Mal.