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  • #16
    I would say upgrade the grinder to get the most out of the expobar unless you mostly drink milky drinks

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    • #17
      I agree with Mal, there's more out there than just the Mazzers.
      I've had a Kony and the latest Compak E10 side by side both at home and in commercial settings, the E10 beats the Kony in most areas; speed, cleanliness, less clumping, functionality (better adjustment with dose, pause function etc) and yes, taste too...that may simply be because of the fluffier grind = better distribution and less channeling. If you gave me $2k I'd be buying the Compak without a doubt.
      I've used Macaps but only the M4D, so no taste comparison, its digital functionality is fancier than the Mazzer but not as nice as the Compak. The worm drive on the Macaps are nice and accurate for espresso changes but going from espresso to something coarser will give you RSI, if you want to go from espresso to french press then rent Breaking Bad seasons 1-4 cos you'll be there a while!

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      • #18
        Davie, are you considering a Kony-e or the doser model? Some of the replies above aren't specific to one

        or the other.

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        • #19
          Hi Davie
          I have a Robur & a Lido 2 and I can't really tell the difference in flavour - and the Lido has 0% grind retention while the Robur has about 400%.
          If you really want to single dose - go the Lido for a comparable flavour to other big conicals. It is very different to a small flat burr grinder - and as Chris mentioned, if you find you don't like hand grinding you won't lose much on resale.
          But FWIW - when I've used the Robur for 2-3 doubles a day, I've never really found grind retention a flavour issue anyway with only a small purge each time. I don't subscribe to the "I can taste 0.1g of 15min old coffee polluting my perfect brew" camp anyway!
          Cheers Matt

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          • #20
            I have a motorized HG-1 that I’m very happy with apart from the static issues.
            I found an almost new Kony-e at auction that I kept for 2 months before selling due to its retention.
            It’s an excellent grinder but is better suited to a commercial environment and certainly not me as I alternate between DeCaf and regular with almost every cup.
            I may have kept it if we both used the same bean.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
              I have a Robur & a Lido 2 and I can't really tell the difference in flavour - and the Lido has 0% grind retention while the Robur has about 400%.
              400% of nothing is.... Nothing
              Sorry, couldn't help it...

              Mal.

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              • #22
                Thanks everyone for your input.

                I mainly drink milk based - lattes/flat whites and short macs. I do notice the taste difference even when I order a latte at the café to what I can make at home. I think the taste difference is mainly in the milk/Crema, almost more nutty in flavour.
                It is good to hear that the Lido is on par in terms of taste to the Robur/large conical's. As many of suggested, for the price it is a good way to gauge the difference in taste between conical and flat bur.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                  400% of nothing is.... Nothing
                  Sorry, couldn't help it...

                  Mal.
                  Hmmm - got me scratching there Mal! Must be Monday morning!
                  Guess what I meant was 400% retention for a 20g shot - so 80g retained in the Robur?
                  Guess my dreams of astro-physics are now dashed once and for all! Good ole 2unit general maths

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                  • #24
                    I don't think the grinder will make that much of a difference especially in milk drinks. I'm all for big conical grinders and that the taste difference is noticable to me, but I do drink my coffee as short black. Adding milk, sugar etc though, will most likely cover the subtle differences.

                    Are you using/comparing the same beans? You might want to replicate their recipe (talk to the barista). What you ultimately want to know - what's their coffee dose, how much output in how many seconds, temperature, diluted with how much milk etc.

                    Also, do they mix a little milk with the crema (before pouring all the milk), how much foam do they stretch to with the milk etc? All these workflow details are minor but I find them make a much bigger difference to the taste than the grinder itself.
                    Last edited by samuellaw178; 15 February 2016, 02:10 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by samuellaw178 View Post
                      I don't think the grinder will make that much of a difference especially in milk drinks. I'm all for big conical grinders and that the taste difference is noticable to me, but I do drink my coffee as short black. Adding milk, sugar etc though, will most likely cover the subtle differences.

                      Are you using/comparing the same beans? You might want to replicate their recipe (talk to the barista). What you ultimately want to know - what's their coffee dose, how much output in how many seconds, temperature, diluted with how much milk etc.

                      Also, do they mix a little milk with the crema (before pouring all the milk), how much foam do they stretch to with the milk etc? All these workflow details are minor but I find them make a much bigger difference to the taste than the grinder itself.
                      I have tried following their same"recipe". I had a good chat a while back with one of the barista's about temp, bean quantity, and time. This was back when they were running Synesso's. I use their espresso blend, which is the same as those they use.

                      Anyone with a Kony could you measure the height with standard hopper for me. I've seen measurements of 630mm or 650mm. My cabinet is 660 mm, so it has to be able to fit under that. (The hopper would sit half under so I can still get the beans in)

                      I think I am now considering either large conical or the Lido. At least with the Kony I wouldn't need to worry about upgrading again

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                      • #26
                        I have no experience with large conicals, however speaking in general terms I'd say that the Lido would be a good choice. There's a chance that it might not be the grinder that's the issue here. So starting a trial so to speak with a cheaper option that is easily on sold lowers the risk a bit. It's what I'd be doing if I was in this situation.

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                        • #27
                          They are using Roburs and La Marzocco's.
                          i find that I can't get to the normal "bliss" shot that our local coffee folk produce every morning with the same set up. I also note that of two places near each other (Cottesloe WA) same name, same set up, same beans one is always better even though the baristas swap over. I don't know how one machine is just so much better. That said I like my (modified) Kony-e and love it's even clumpless grinds. Every now and then I get very close, even so all my coffee is better than most normal places round about.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Davie View Post
                            At least with the Kony I wouldn't need to worry about upgrading again
                            I'm sure you'll find a reason

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                            • #29
                              I am sure a kony or similar would be an improvement but I am not sure the grinder is the problem. I had a mini e with supper jolly burrs and made better coffees then most cafes.

                              Also I would look at other grinders apart from the mazzer. If I was going large conical I would probably get the compak however I would actually go large flat burr if I was in the market (e.g Mythos One or mahlkonig peak).

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by htb View Post
                                I had a mini e with supper jolly burrs...
                                Me too. We built one out of curiosity after reading the chatter about this mod. It suffered from stall at up to 20% of grind attempts and the SJ burrs had to go.

                                I still consider the mini-e to be one of the worst bang for buck grinders on the market. They're a long way from a favourite of mine.
                                Last edited by TC; 17 February 2016, 03:26 AM.

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