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replacing Rocky doser grinder with something much better - but what exactly?

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Thought I'd try this - ~1:30 from go to whoa, give or take 10 seconds and I'm enjoying the fruits of my labours within 4 minutes. I'm happy enough with that!

    FWIW I don't think my single dosing process is exceptional in any way - weigh beans into a spare double basket that also serves as a lid on the grinder to prevent beans popcorning out - I drop it onto the scales and tare, pour my dose, dump into the grinder throat and hit the go button; once it's ground I sweep the chute, drop the P/F onto scales and tare, dose and weigh. Typically I'm between the intended dose to 0.2 g over. Level off with a finger, pushing a few grounds out if the dose is over, reweigh, tap to settle and tamp. I very rarely have to adjust the dose a second time.

    Unless it's the last shot of the session I'll normally have one dose in the throat ready to go and another sitting in the basket on top - so can dump the second dose by pushing the edge of the basket to flip it. Particularly helpful if making two doubles back to back.


    Totally agree with this - the goal is a repeatable process that leads to a reasonably consistent sized, freshly ground dose delivered and distributed consistently into the basket. There are lots of methods using different equipment that can achieve this; single dosing with a commercial grinder with large conical burrs and doser is one of them, a timed doserless grinder is another. I wouldn't want to be single dosing in a commercial environment, but have observed very busy cafes using a similar process, albeit with a pre-doser between the hopper and grinder throat and a grinder designed for single-dosing. Personally my previous grinder was doserless, so I wanted to play with a doser grinder and am enjoying the technique (as well as the results).

    Without going in to boring detail, I single dose and my work flow is very similar to yours Matt, have tried a weight on top of the beans (my tamper) to prevent popcorning, to my taste makes little or no difference in the cup, so I weigh em and dump em into the grinder, then clean up, 18 grams in = pretty darned close to 18 out, a quick and simple process, nope have never felt the need to time myself, it ain't a race, I'm makin a cuppa coffee and I'm not pressed for time, works well for me, clean the grinder out every month or 6 weeks, not enough build up to worry me.

    Life is good.

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  • TRRR
    replied
    I used to single dose with my compak k3 for a few months until I tried filling up the hopper and using it that way (the way it is designed to be operated) then doing a comparison. Have to say there was a huge difference in taste between the two methods. My conclusion, right or wrong, was that there are a lot more fines produced in the last part of the grind with a single dose grind and this makes the shot bitter. If you look at the top burr of the k3 and I suspect lots/all other similar planar grinders are the same, it is quite wobbly when you move it around or touch the hopper. It is not fixed rigidly. It relies on the space between the two burrs being full of coffee to hold the burrs plates parallel and at the proper separation to get a precise grind.

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  • Magic_Matt
    replied
    Originally posted by readeral View Post
    I dare you to time it from the point you grab your bag of beans to the point that you've finished tamping. 5 minutes might have been facetious, but I'd posit you're up there in the 2-to-3 minute mark after you've swept out and found your .01g dose. My timed grinder (Profitec T64) gets me my dose in 7 seconds. So, I have my prepared puck at about 15 seconds, before you've plucked out that one extra stray bean.
    Thought I'd try this - ~1:30 from go to whoa, give or take 10 seconds and I'm enjoying the fruits of my labours within 4 minutes. I'm happy enough with that!

    FWIW I don't think my single dosing process is exceptional in any way - weigh beans into a spare double basket that also serves as a lid on the grinder to prevent beans popcorning out - I drop it onto the scales and tare, pour my dose, dump into the grinder throat and hit the go button; once it's ground I sweep the chute, drop the P/F onto scales and tare, dose and weigh. Typically I'm between the intended dose to 0.2 g over. Level off with a finger, pushing a few grounds out if the dose is over, reweigh, tap to settle and tamp. I very rarely have to adjust the dose a second time.

    Unless it's the last shot of the session I'll normally have one dose in the throat ready to go and another sitting in the basket on top - so can dump the second dose by pushing the edge of the basket to flip it. Particularly helpful if making two doubles back to back.

    Originally posted by readeral View Post
    So - get a timed grinder, and enjoy it. OR change your burrs, and enjoy how you're currently preparing your espresso
    Totally agree with this - the goal is a repeatable process that leads to a reasonably consistent sized, freshly ground dose delivered and distributed consistently into the basket. There are lots of methods using different equipment that can achieve this; single dosing with a commercial grinder with large conical burrs and doser is one of them, a timed doserless grinder is another. I wouldn't want to be single dosing in a commercial environment, but have observed very busy cafes using a similar process, albeit with a pre-doser between the hopper and grinder throat and a grinder designed for single-dosing. Personally my previous grinder was doserless, so I wanted to play with a doser grinder and am enjoying the technique (as well as the results).

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by kbilleter View Post
    (Quick Google later...)
    Well I'll be... they do seem to be around. Recommended to use a hood as moving air affects the measurement :-). Think I'm pretty happy with a decent .1 display +/- .05g
    Morning all.

    Just because I've got them doesn't mean I use em to that degree of accuracy, you wont find me breaking beans and adding fragments to nail the weight spot on, usually +/- 0.05 gram, nope not fiddly, use a small light weight container, scoop the beans, normally very close, then add/subtract few beans to get what I want.

    Here's a pic similar to what I use, available on the Bay for about $8.Click image for larger version

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  • kbilleter
    replied
    Originally posted by acid_rider View Post
    I use scales of 0.01 gr precision because they only cost $50.

    I used the lesser scales of 0.1 grams precision before, bought 6+ years ago and it could be easily 0.2 grams off the mark.
    (Quick Google later...)
    Well I'll be... they do seem to be around. Recommended to use a hood as moving air affects the measurement :-). Think I'm pretty happy with a decent .1 display +/- .05g

    Leave a comment:


  • fatboy_1999
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Math fatboy, 15 x 300 = 4500.
    Yeah, sorry 4500 doubles. My bad!
    But still the total gone through the burrs is not so large.
    4500 x 20g (being generous) = 90kg. Still doesn't seem like a huge amount.

    Leave a comment:


  • acid_rider
    replied
    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
    4500 shots x20g per shot = 90kg. That's a long way shy of of the life of Rocky burrs. Given the Mazzer Mini burrs will last for 300kg throughput, even at a conservative guess of 200kg for the Rocky, you still leave a few years left. There are indicators for worn burrs such as longer grind times and consistently poorer quality shots.
    I think a significant grinder upgrade would make a difference in coffee quality, moreso than a machine upgrade. However, you didn't indicate your grinder cleaning regime.
    If you do buy a new grinder, expect a running-in period such as new burrs producing inconsistent shots for the first 3+kg and getting used to a new grinder.
    thanks.
    My Rocky cleaning regime is once a year (approx).
    Looking inside it after 1 year, there is actually not much to clean.
    This is because I flick out all grounds from the hole between the burrs and the doser with a plastic stick after each grinding session (so I am guessing).

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnaus
    replied
    4500 shots x20g per shot = 90kg. That's a long way shy of of the life of Rocky burrs. Given the Mazzer Mini burrs will last for 300kg throughput, even at a conservative guess of 200kg for the Rocky, you still leave a few years left. There are indicators for worn burrs such as longer grind times and consistently poorer quality shots.
    I think a significant grinder upgrade would make a difference in coffee quality, moreso than a machine upgrade. However, you didn't indicate your grinder cleaning regime.
    If you do buy a new grinder, expect a running-in period such as new burrs producing inconsistent shots for the first 3+kg and getting used to a new grinder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Ah, fair enough mate....

    I agree with you re: the replacement burr-set - Original is the only way to go. Got bitten myself when I went with a replacement generic set of burrs (years ago). Only lasted around 50Kgs so was very disappointed...

    Mal.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    I reckon your Rocky's burrs would still be in good nick to be honest. Perhaps a good clean will make a difference...

    4,500 Dbl Shots, allowing 20g per shot with roughly 10% wastage only comes to around 100Kg of coffee. Should be good enough for another 200-300Kg more yet before they should need replacing...

    Mal.
    They claim a set of burrs should handle around 300 kg, in my experience I found a marked drop in performance well before that figure, replaced with a set of aftermarket jobs, they performed well for a few months then rapidly degraded, installed a set of genuine Rancilio, they were still going strong a couple of years later when I sold the grinder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    I reckon your Rocky's burrs would still be in good nick to be honest. Perhaps a good clean will make a difference...

    4,500 Dbl Shots, allowing 20g per shot with roughly 10% wastage only comes to around 100Kg of coffee. Should be good enough for another 200-300Kg more yet before they should need replacing...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • acid_rider
    replied
    I use scales of 0.01 gr precision because they only cost $50.

    I used the lesser scales of 0.1 grams precision before, bought 6+ years ago and it could be easily 0.2 grams off the mark.
    With 0.01 grams precision I can only be 0.02 grams off the mark.
    Same low price, better precision.
    Rocky cost $400, scales $50, good price performance compared to $1000 grinder.
    Cheaper machines like Silvia need all the help you can give them so I adopted very scientific method that produces very good double shots, reliably and repeatedly.
    I could spend $2500 on a Rocky Giotto and $1000 on a grinder and forget about it for $3500-$4000, at least 3 times the price of Silvia/Rocky.
    You get what you paid for.
    I paid $800 for Silvia, $400 for Rocky and $50 for 0.01 gr scales, which is the price of just a Mazzer Mini grinder.
    At home I have luxury of time, because Silvia needs a minimm of 20 minutes to warm up so if I need to spend 5 min of that to weigh and grind it really is not noticeable in the end. I dont do espresso parties and I dont work as a barista.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by kbilleter View Post
    Funny thread. Highly doubt anyone here is using .01g resolution scales
    I am! very small, very accurate, very light, very easy to use and very cheap, cost me about $15 inc postage over 5 years ago, used multiple times daily.

    Leave a comment:


  • readeral
    replied
    Originally posted by kbilleter View Post
    Funny thread. Highly doubt anyone here is using .01g resolution scales
    See mentioned in post #10! Still, you're probably right ;P

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    Really? New burrs after grinding 300 double shots? Seems a little bit of overkill to me.
    Math fatboy, 15 x 300 = 4500.

    Leave a comment:

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