Kafatek Monolith

[trentski]

Mythos 1 would also fit the bill

[dlight]

it would however be great if i could grind one style of bean one minute, then put totally different beans in and grind them. no waste, no purge. it would be great if i could sample the grind, decide to change grind size, and then test the new grind size without having to purge. and i might be wrong but i don't think i can do that with a kony.

The Monolith does exactly what you describe.

I can also do this with the Electra Nino, using it to single dose. The Nino also has no retention to speak of - it ejects all the grinds in the grind chamber. However, while it takes about 4.5 seconds to grind 20g with a hopper of beans in place, it takes about 10 seconds when single dosing due to popcorning. The grind setting is also set finer when single dosing. Clearly the grind is very different, as a result. And tastewise? Both taste great!

And the Nino costs about the same as the Monolith. Second hand it is way less.

I suspect the retention is going to be your issue with the Kone-e.

[Shortyesquire]

@kwantfm - interesting that, as kony single dose enthusiasts talk about having to have a much different grind adjustment when single dosing as opposed to using a hopper (much finer).

i have some broader questions and think this is an OK place to post them (as opposed to a brand new thread).

i'm pretty keen on buying the monolith flat. as always the prospect of a significant (for me) purchase like this leads to alot of internet research.

and the question in my head is "what am i going to get out of my ~ $3.4k purchase that i don't already have". so the issue there is what can the monolith do that the kony-e cannot. (here i am focussing on the rational benefits, i am aware however there are irrational aspects to the purchase but of course they are quite personal/subjective).

i would say that the kony-e (with hopper) is leading to alot of wasted coffee. so if i want to adjust my grind i find myself having to go thru 54g at least. and of course every time i make a cup (around 6 times a day), i find myself purging one shot (18g). why the "freshness" purge size is less than the "grind adjustment" purge size i do not know.

now people have set the kony-e up for single dosing it seems. i wonder how successful that is and what the drawbacks are? possible drawbacks for me might be the safety aspect and also the amount of work required to minimise retention. i'd prefer not to do RDT. but rdt sounds preferable to getting the brush out every time one grinds a dose.

another issue is this, i might prefer the kony in the cup. that of course would be a bit of a downer but i probably have to accept it might happen. the kony is a great grinder. it lifted my game completely. all other things being ok, i'm making the best coffee of my life right now. and looking at the whole coffee making system, which for me includes selecting green beans and roasting, current grinder is not the weak link.

it would however be great if i could grind one style of bean one minute, then put totally different beans in and grind them. no waste, no purge. it would be great if i could sample the grind, decide to change grind size, and then test the new grind size without having to purge. and i might be wrong but i don't think i can do that with a kony.

this is a bit of a ramble, but any comments?

If you're already doing home roasting, you're obviously happy to put some effort in. You could get a big manual grinder that would probably do 99% of what you want with a little bit of elbow grease.

Use the money saved to buy a DE1 or a few years of green beans.

[mrgray]

@kwantfm - interesting that, as kony single dose enthusiasts talk about having to have a much different grind adjustment when single dosing as opposed to using a hopper (much finer).

i have some broader questions and think this is an OK place to post them (as opposed to a brand new thread).

i'm pretty keen on buying the monolith flat. as always the prospect of a significant (for me) purchase like this leads to alot of internet research.

and the question in my head is "what am i going to get out of my ~ $3.4k purchase that i don't already have". so the issue there is what can the monolith do that the kony-e cannot. (here i am focussing on the rational benefits, i am aware however there are irrational aspects to the purchase but of course they are quite personal/subjective).

i would say that the kony-e (with hopper) is leading to alot of wasted coffee. so if i want to adjust my grind i find myself having to go thru 54g at least. and of course every time i make a cup (around 6 times a day), i find myself purging one shot (18g). why the "freshness" purge size is less than the "grind adjustment" purge size i do not know.

now people have set the kony-e up for single dosing it seems. i wonder how successful that is and what the drawbacks are? possible drawbacks for me might be the safety aspect and also the amount of work required to minimise retention. i'd prefer not to do RDT. but rdt sounds preferable to getting the brush out every time one grinds a dose.

another issue is this, i might prefer the kony in the cup. that of course would be a bit of a downer but i probably have to accept it might happen. the kony is a great grinder. it lifted my game completely. all other things being ok, i'm making the best coffee of my life right now. and looking at the whole coffee making system, which for me includes selecting green beans and roasting, current grinder is not the weak link.

it would however be great if i could grind one style of bean one minute, then put totally different beans in and grind them. no waste, no purge. it would be great if i could sample the grind, decide to change grind size, and then test the new grind size without having to purge. and i might be wrong but i don't think i can do that with a kony.

this is a bit of a ramble, but any comments?

[kwantfm]

I emailed Denis about the question of pop-corning... I had suggested a weighted cap that would push down on the beans whilst grinding. He told me that he'd tested both and that with the low RPM of the grinder that there was no extraction yield difference between having a weight on top of the beans and not.

[mrgray]

i'd like to thank people for their answers in regard to my questions. i've contacted kafetek; nothing much happening right now. $500 deposits on future machines would appear to be sold out. i'm entirely set on getting the flat, mainly because i think it looks fantastic. the ability to change rpm sounds neat too, albeit another variable in a pursuit which doesn't exactly lack them.

i don't expect a real improvement in flavour over the kony-e. i will use less coffee though and also different kinds of coffee. currently i can go thru a significant portion of a small bag (say 250g) dialing it in and so i tend not to bother and stick to my home roast.

i wonder how the designer dealt with the pop-corning issue where grind quality is impacted (i.e. better grind from beans which are loaded by other beans on top).

incidental to the subject of the thread but the exercise (of reading up on the Monolith and associated topics) has made me focus on my espresso method to a great degree and i am now using WDT. big improvements on time to blonding. i don't have a naked PF but i presume i was getting alot of channelling before, not something i was picking on. also extractions were too slow, not enough coffee in basket, overly fine.

[dlight]

Kafatek Monolith

I have a Monolith Conical.
There is zero coffee wastage
Amazingly quiet
Simple to make adjustments from shot to shot.

Regarding improving what you get in the cup, it really depends on your current grinder. I would imagine the Kone-e does a great job already. I can comment that you will find flavour differences.

I also have a Electra Nino conical, and a Mazzer Super Jolly (flat). The Monolith is simply superior to the Super Jolly in the cup. However, relative to the Electra it is different, not superior.

The Monolith is very quick to setup, since you always use a consistent amount of coffee. The others simply take longer, since you usually have to change the timer if you change the grind.

The Monolith is way quicker to set up if you change coffee regularly (which I do). The Electra is quicker in use (but not setup) if you're making multiple shots.

I enjoy the routine of making coffee. It is a break for me from whatever I was doing before. So weighing the dose each time is simply part of my routine. If you're in a rush in the morning, or making many coffee's at a time, then perhaps stay with what you've got. Or use both and enjoy the diversity.

[samuellaw178]

i'd hope that the flat would:
- improve what i get in the cup
- waste less coffee (currently have a hopper on the kony and im going thru 45 g to test a grind size adjustment)
- be quieter
- lead me to experiment with grind adjustment more (and maybe even different beans)

Hi mrgray, don't think there are many Monoliths owners here so will pass on what I read/know..

Do you have your coffee straight as espresso or in milk drink? Do you prefer light roasts or the darker spectrum? The taste difference, if any, is only really noticeable in espresso. The flat works better if you prefer lighter roasts (not necessarily super light roasts). If you prefer darker roasts especially those into second crack, it may not be so much of an improvement.

As for single shot(single dosing) approach, it's really up to you to find out. I am skimpy on roasted coffee beans (especially the rare/good ones!). I've tried hopper dosing for a bit but couldn't bear myself to purge perfectly OK coffee(even if only a few grams) into the bin, and couldn't bring myself to waste my daily caffeine quota on coffee that I know was made with partially stale ground. So I went back to single dosing shortly after.

Single dosing is slightly more work, but you get guaranteed fresh coffee every time and zero/minimal wastage. The Monolith is designed so that you don't have to work so much to get single dosing to work (no brushing the chute or doser). If you dislike the weighing aspect, maybe just scoop them out from a jar with a dosing spoon? Weighing is really more accurate/consistent though...

As for the rest of your hope/checklist (other than the first one which may be a bit more subjective/subtle), the Monolith does fullfill all of them.

[Dimal]

G'day "mrgray"...

Best thing really would be to suss out a couple of reputable specialist coffee shops who own both large conicals and large flat-burr grinders, then try your favourite drink from each with the same barista. Try a few, no need to drink the entire cup but at least you should get enough consistency going to allow you to make a decision on what's best for you...

Mal.

[mrgray]

really thinking about the flat. i currently run a kony-e. i'd hope that the flat would:
- improve what i get in the cup
- waste less coffee (currently have a hopper on the kony and im going thru 45 g to test a grind size adjustment)
- be quieter
- lead me to experiment with grind adjustment more (and maybe even different beans)

re: grinders i've gone from a stepped bezzera (junk) to a pharos (unusable for mine) to a super jolly (v good) to a kony-e. really noticed the change to a kony. consistently better shots.

does anyone think i'll have a similar result with the monolith flat? as in a noticeable improvement in espresso results? also i'm not 100% convinced that the waste-less single shot approach won't be a huge let down compared to the current convenience of beans in a hopper (albeit with waste of purging). i see videos of people sweeping out fines and measuring beans and just wonder if it is for me.

[wfdTamar]

Yep, they went while I was umming and aghing about it. Conical or flat? Black bits (but they might get scratched, look better though). Have you ever seen such a high priced item sell out so quickly?

Problem is if we get the email at that sort of hour (I think I saw it at 6am) and they sell out at 7am, what hope have we (Aus & NZ time zones) got to get them?

[Logga]

Conicals sold out now, a few flats left.

[Logga]

Just got one, wooohoo , when i got up there were 7 left , 15 minutes later only 2 left. Probably sold out now

Way to go. One conical left.

[kofekitt]

Just got one, wooohoo , when i got up there were 7 left , 15 minutes later only 2 left. Probably sold out now

[Logga]

Didnt on that run. Still hope to....

The conicals are up for sale Melbroaster, you better hurry if you want one.