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Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

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  • #31
    Originally posted by pessutojr View Post
    I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.
    I said that, and it depends what you're trying to achieve that will determine if it doesn't work or not.. I make my comment knowing full well how the screen works, my hunch is that it'd be suitably effective for some people for some uses.
    Dealing with a bit of static coffee in order to single dose might be perfect for some. For me - it's being able to sweep out the chute after a days worth of use, or at bean changeover, rather than every coffee.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by pessutojr View Post
      Hi, unfortunately I will only be able to try one version, as I want to leave the original one intact.

      As they only sent me one, I'll have to try what I think it's best, and currently I am inclined to break the top left vertical bar, and then go from there.

      Regarding grid at the bottom of the funnel, I've once tried to put a mesh there to no avail: It just clogs up.

      The grid basically works to compact the grinds as they exit the chute to reduce static. I recall someone here saying that a hinged version would be ideal, however that would not work, as with a clean chute with the grid in place, the grinds will initially fly out, full of static, and gradually build up behind it.

      It is the constant backed-up compressed grinds (imagine a sausage machine) that allow the dose to be more consistent and the grinds to be static free.
      Yeah, was hoping Pauly might put his cinematographer skills to use on his version of the mod

      Mesh would definitely block the opening; I'm thinking something more open, like the bulldog clip Mazzer mod. I'll have a play when I get time.

      Thinking outside the square, I find grinds sometimes adhere to the cone a little; linking it to the motor via a rod or something so it vibrates while the grinder is running would help, and would probably prevent any buildup behind a grid too.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Smee View Post
        Have you thought about contacting Profitec HQ in Germany & hitting them up for a grid? They might be up for a chat & you might get advice straight from the horses mouth.

        Just a thought. You might just mention folk on two seperate continents are interested in what they recommend.

        Vossen Profitec GmbH
        Leonhardstrasse 64
        78333 Stockach
        Germany
        Tel.: +49 (0) 7771 870880
        Fax: +49 (0) 7771 8708820
        E-Mail: info(at)vossen-profitec.de
        Hi,

        I have contacted the UK supplier who happened to have a spare one and will send it to me. Let's start from there.

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        • #34
          Hey,

          This morning, using my mobile phone, I've decided to film the flow of coffee in slow motion with the unmodified, stock, original version of the grid.

          It dispensed 18g of coffee in 7.4 seconds.

          You can clearly see that the flow is significant slow on the top-left cell of the grid, followed by the adjacent cells immediately to the right and bottom of it.

          My next task today is to summarise the flow rate for each cell, in order to determine the best course of action.

          May I ask the folks following this thread with a modified grid or not to do the same so we can compare flow and work on the best mod?

          Opinions and feedback at this stage highly appreciated and welcome :-)

          Warning: contains flying objects :-)

          Link to video:

          https://youtu.be/ALy_UEb556s

          Credits yo my 9 year old helper who pressed the button. :-)

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          • #35
            You'll see my observations up on reply number #25 - and they're largely the same. It's because (as mentioned) of the rotation of the burrs, so all of our experiences will relatively similar I would expect.. hence the JetBlack modification works so well.

            FWIW, they've done extensive testing with a number of grid mods to get it right, so you're welcome to do your own testing, but their modification (as photographed) comes recommended (at least from me!)

            I'm flat out of coffee at the moment (haven't had time to roast - curse summer exams) so I can't post my own video I'm afraid. However, I'd be curious to see a slow mo video of the ***** modification for comparison with the one I have at some point!

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            • #36
              My first thought was, is that a plug of stale coffee that the grinder has to force into motion, it then seems to be clumping badly, when finished grinding leaving another plug to go stale, imo would have quite an impact on the quality of the shot, I would imagine the grinding chamber would be pretty bogged up as well.

              I would be trying to clean everything up and keeping it clean between shots, not difficult.

              As a matter of interest the flat burr grinder I use dispenses ground coffee into the hopper brilliantly compared to your video, a spray of fines with no clumping at all, and, dead easy and quick to clean up between shots.

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              • #37
                Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

                Originally posted by readeral View Post
                You'll see my observations up on reply number #25 - and they're largely the same. It's because (as mentioned) of the rotation of the burrs, so all of our experiences will relatively similar I would expect.. hence the JetBlack modification works so well.

                FWIW, they've done extensive testing with a number of grid mods to get it right, so you're welcome to do your own testing, but their modification (as photographed) comes recommended (at least from me!)

                I'm flat out of coffee at the moment (haven't had time to roast - curse summer exams) so I can't post my own video I'm afraid. However, I'd be curious to see a slow mo video of the ***** modification for comparison with the one I have at some point!
                This is very helpful readeral, I wasn't aware that JetBlack did extensive testing on the modification.

                I'd be very curious indeed to see the comparison of the two.

                Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Just for info, got the grid and did the mod. Below it is in slow motion:

                  https://youtu.be/_GRNjKWUG4A

                  And a picture of the mod:



                  It's early days, and I'll experiment a little bit more. I would like to do a few comparisons taste wise with the original grid and with the modded version so see how it differs in the cup.

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                  • #39
                    And the closest to the mod as per OP, difference being the bottom left horizontal line has not been split):



                    https://youtu.be/4wwU6WLhYXw

                    I've pulled two shots so far with this latest mod. Haven't noticed any difference in terms of more or less mess. What I noticed, as expected, is that the grinder is dispensing 1.5g or so more given the same time grind adjustment and time compared to the sock version.

                    I'll keep you guys posted.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      So, this is the verdict for me at least:

                      With the stock screen:
                      - I found that the coffee is tastier, more full bodied;
                      - The flow of grinds coming out of the chute are uneven, so there are more grinds trapped behind the screen in the chute, and who knows when they will end up in the cup;

                      - With the stock screen, with the grind set to grind for 7.2 seconds, and with the grind collar at position X, 16g of coffee was dispensed. With the modified screen, it dispensed 18g. With the same dose of 18g, same grind adjustment, the stock screen would yield 36g in 60s, with the modified screen in 40s.

                      With the modified screen:
                      - Grinds were fluffier;
                      - Grinds coming out were evenly distributed throughout the screen;
                      - Espresso felt a bit thinner if compared to the stock screen, but the difference is minimal.

                      Overall, I am personally keeping the modified version of the screen (as per last picture). I think that's a good compromise for a Home Barista trying find a balance between waste of coffee due to retention, static and flavour in the cup.

                      I hope the above is useful.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by pessutojr View Post
                        So, this is the verdict for me at least:
                        <snip>
                        I hope the above is useful.
                        Very; thank you! [emoji106]

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                        • #42
                          ...I take a week or so vacation and this thread just blew up!
                          Some amazing info here with detailed observations that has lead to some great discoveries and results.

                          Thank you pessutojr !

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

                            So, after owning the V-Titan for about 6 months, I decided to have another go at removing the grid altogether. My hope was that now the burrs are run in, static should be reduced somewhat.



                            Result: fluffy, beautiful grinds delivered straight where I wanted them! Well, a tiny amount sticking to the dosing funnel, but no biggie. Sweeping the chute with a brush, I reckon I'm down to well under two grams retention.

                            This works nicely with my ghetto dosing and weighing container (a kulfi mould, if you must know...); not sure how it would go with dosing directly into the portafilter. Could go errywhere...

                            I stupidly changed filter basket AND beans at the same time, but found that I needed a much finer grind than previously. But since I switched from my old 20g Synesso double to a Pesado "22" that swallows 25g and asks for more, who knows how much that has to do with removing the grid. After a few absolute gushers, dialled back in now.

                            [edit: most] of the benefits of single dosing with the convenience of a timed grinder?

                            Yes please!

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                            • #44
                              Profitec Pro 64 - Question on the funnel

                              @Magic_Matt, you may want to try this:

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPao49FNfX4

                              My experience was similar to yours: If you remove the grid, you have to grind finer. Apparently this is due to the coffee fines getting stuck to the funnel and not making their way into the final dose, and also not getting mixed.

                              Also, your figure of ~ 2g tallies up with the amount of coffee I found in the burr chamber last time I cleaned the grinder: 1.4g.

                              A good thing about this grinder is that it has some sort of sweeping arms that keep the burr chamber nicely clean.

                              PS: This is a video I came across. It's not mine, although I have the same grinder. :-)
                              Last edited by MediumRoastSteam; 2 March 2017, 07:46 PM. Reason: Added PS note stating it's not my video.

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                              • #45
                                I think if you're single dosing this too requires much finer grinding. With the Robur my normal setting for espresso with a full hopper and grid in place is around 7. Single dosing grid out – 4.5
                                I imagine the grid creates some back-pressure (to use a car term!) which slows the beans through the grind path, allowing them to be chomped more consistently.

                                FWIW, I think flavour suffers a little with a single dosing technique in big grinders for this reason – seems like no back pressure in front / no bean weight on top of the burrs behind gives a less consistent result over all. You can make up for some of the shortcomings by going finer - but I reckon there is a less consistent grind spread. When I do fill mine up for an event and use it as nature intended, I much prefer the flavour results! It's not a deal-breaker (I single dose 99% of the time) but is certainly noticeable.

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