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Looking to buy a new grinder for home espresso around $1000
All good info CoffeeChris, thanks! And I agree with you, the Zenith is a much better looking machine when compared with the squarish looking Atom. When I first saw a picture of an Atom I though "ah ha, designed by the Russian Lada team" :-) That said, they seem like a great grinder.
Hi Paul,
I reckon I could taste the difference and most others with a reasonable pallet could as well.
One week is along time to have the beans exposed to open air and oxidization, let alone two weeks.
I must admit I find the single dosing ritual unnecessary.
The old fashioned beans back in the bag with a rubber band around will give you two to three weeks after the bag is opened.
I spent many years playing around with single dosing and storing beans in bags with one way valves and containers with vacuum pumps, etc, etc.
I'm now back to basics (KISS principle). I load the hopper and just make sure I empty it within a week or so.
An idea for you to try - Do some back to back shots with beans left in the open for a week and beans stored in a bag with a one way valve and see if you can pick the difference. If you can, I'll eat my my hat
Cheers, Paul
Evening Paul,
I'm also a fan of the KISS principle, however, must admit I'm quite surprised you would make a statement like this.
Coincidentally I carried out a similar test only a few months ago.
Roasted beans left in the hopper overnight then ground the following morning were dramatically degraded, the pour was thin, dark, with minimal crema.
Ground coffee left in the doser for an hour before use exhibited similar characteristics, both were undrinkable.
Followed up both shots with another from beans stored in one way valve bags, both excellent.
One way valve bags for me every time.
As an afterthought, perhaps the volume of beans/ground coffee in the hopper has a bearing on the outcome, I single dose, so only had 18 grams of beans in the hopper and the same amount ground in the doser.
It's certainly an interesting thought... I guess the main thing always is, it depends, it depends it depends. Haha.. I like keeping them in a one way valve bag and in the cupboard, it allows for more consistent conditions for the unused beans to be in (whereas in the hopper temp, light etc can vary through the day) but would be interested to experiment for sure.
Conditions in different locations will vary (obviously oxygen will be present in most place coffee is made hehe), but I think it it really really depends. If people are getting clear, different and honest results, I think it's safe to say we can't really say discount it.
Hehe the ever-discussed bean storage ay! Yeah for sure I will try that at some stage, only just modded my Rocky (... yes.... FIIIINALLY), so will be experimenting with that first [emoji14]
Been there, done that many years ago also.
Either reseal the bag after grabbing some beans or use the entire contents from a grinder hopper over a few days. Life's too short to be drinking ruined coffee...
...well. I couldn't agree more Simon. Lots of variables and no absolutes as is so common with this hobby.
Cheers, Paul
There is an absolute with this one, its been tested and proved many times.
Absolutely do not leave your beans in the hopper for a week... don't.... no..... never.... just no.
As an industry professional if I suggested that to my peers I would laughed out the next judging panel. There is significant deterioration in been quality.
Leaving beans in your hopper is for the old fashioned souvlaki bar from the 80s with the 2 group Rancillio burn box in the corner. (no offence to souvlakis, I love them..)
I have the Macap M4D grinder which I bought from Paul at * ****. Lovely.
I wanted something that looks good in the kitchen so I got the chrome model. I also wanted something that could give a reproducible grind and that was adjustable in fine increments. Finally I wanted something built like a tank that could be unearthed by scientists 3000 year from now and would still operate as new.
I finally wanted something that would grinder reasonably quick and this one does a grind in about 10 seconds which is good. It also is relatively quiet.
I think I got all those things and I couldn't be happier. A grinder is a long term investment so I say just buy a good one but don't go over the top in terms of size as it does have to fit in somewhere.
I only put enough beans in the hopper for a couple of grinds. Next to the grinder I have three plastic sealed containers each containing 250g (green bean equivalent) which represents a roast in my Hottop roaster. This way the beans are seasoned and ready for drinking.
I try not to be too anal about anything to do with coffee as I'm not a fusspot and I don't weigh my grinds, except occasionally as an experiment. I just level it at the top of the portafilter and tamp. I don't time shots I just do it by sight.
I think if you can afford it and you love your coffee you should get equipment that you don't even think of trading in but equipment, every time you look at it, it brings a smile to your face. If you can do that then you have spent your money wisely...
I put 200g in the hopper at a time, and when nearly gone refill with another 200g. This is every 2 or 3 days. For me this is my preferred balance of fresh/convenient and gives me more delicious espresso than most cafes I go to
I put 200g in the hopper at a time, and when nearly gone refill with another 200g. This is every 2 or 3 days. For me this is my preferred balance of fresh/convenient and gives me more delicious espresso than most cafes I go to
This is my routine too, though I tend to refill in ~100g increments.
If I'm going away overnight I'll decant the hopper back into a valved bag.
I'm really not convinced yet as I get regular god shots with beans stored for a week in the hopper.
I'll need to test this. Maybe there's a research paper out there??? I need evidence. I'll test for myself with back-to-back shots. I suppose that's the ex-scientist in me. I rely on evidence, not here say or faith
My hypothesis is: "there is no significant difference in espresso produced using 7 day old light/medium roasted beans stored in a hopper and 7 day old light/medium roasted beans stored in a bag with a one way valve."
After testing I'll report back. If it's disproven I'll change my ways, go back to single dosing, and improve my shots so that would be a win really
This is the sort of meaty exploration that makes coffee a hobby and not just a drink.
Cheers, Paul
Paul, as a scientist, if you wanted to give a result worth reporting back on (rather than just working out your personal preferences) it may be worth getting a larger sample base than just you. One is a very, very small sample easily affected by personal preferences or even unknown issue such as damaged taste buds or no palate (how would you know unless tested). I had a mate who knew he had poor smell, too many broken noses, but until he was told didn't realise how much it affected his taste. Not being smart but just saying a test of one is too small, maybe give a mystery bag of aged coffee to the next ten purchasers of the ****** and ask which they prefer? Who knows, you may end up with an open 44 gallon drum of roasted beans out the back for those who prefer aged beans - just like aged beef
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