Macap M2M - fill hopper with only what you need?

[dbun]

Even distribution of particle sizes appears to be the key.

I will try your suggestions - I've never done WDT, but perhaps dosing into a container first to help distribute and break up clumps before tipping into the PF will help.

[dbun]

If you really would prefer to single dose I would even try going finer (that's assuming the pours are too fast..?), and make sure to keep each variable fixed (same dose, distribution method, tamp), and see if you can get consistent pours at a decent flow rate.

I'm going to play around with it more - already I'm a couple of clicks finer than what I had before, but I might need to go finer again - the same setting with the hopper filled will choke the machine (too fine!), but with a single dose will pour.

[dbun]

Did you weigh the beans before and grounds after to make sure you were getting all of it out? - this should have been too much of a problem if you did multiple shots at once.

I was getting almost the same amount out.
E.g. if I put 20.5g in I was getting 20.3g out - the main thing I was shooting for was the same amount in the basket, so even if the amount going in was slightly more, I would make sure I removed some to get the same 20g in the basket.

Do you have a M2M too? Is it working fine for you?

[noonar]

I single dose into a Mazzer Mini e. 20gms goes into the throat and 20gms are swept out, from the throat, from the funnel and the chute, either direct into the portafilter or into a conatiner - totally bean dependent. I single dose for freshness and wastage reasons.

Whilst not having the weight of a full hopper of beans can cause excess fines with some bean types/roast levels, which leads to pour consistency problems, generally the issues caused by the extra fines can easily be overcome as long as they can be reasonably evenly dsitributed.

When experiencing the excess fines that can be caused by single dosing by some roasts, into a machine that is not designed for such functions, I use WDT to distribute all the tiny particles evenly (AFAHP) amongst their bigger buddies, hopefully ensuring an even flow of water through the puck. From what I have read it is not the fines that cause the consistency problems but their distribution or lack of it - bring on the Niche - which hopefully ends the pour inconsistency problems caused by poor distribution of coffee fines resulting from single dosing on non-single dosing designed machines.

Even distribution of particle sizes appears to be the key.

[simonsk8r]

Testing over the weekend showed the same thing.

working hard to keep dose and tamp consistent, back-to-back shots did not pour consistently. It was only once I filled the hopper up again that I started to get back to consistent shots.

I'll have to play around with it a bit more.

Yeah sounds pretty standard and that's my experience too.. some say grinders in general are just not designed for single dosing, and need a weight of beans. But some people have found that certain grinders seem suited to single dosing or find it works better for, but also that's why there a few designed specifically for that purpose. If you really would prefer to single dose I would even try going finer (that's assuming the pours are too fast..?), and make sure to keep each variable fixed (same dose, distribution method, tamp), and see if you can get consistent pours at a decent flow rate.

But there's nothing wrong with hopper dosing, and you can manage waste and it's easy to implement practices that keep it to a minimum. I was the sort of person a while ago that was meticulous about saving every single gram I could.. but now I am just much more cruisy about it, and think life's too short to believe in scarcity, what I'm lacking and what I need to 'save'. (still a work in progress hehe). Not a healthy mindset really, and can leave one in a constant state of 'not-enough'ness hehe.

[WhatEverBeansNecessary]

Bizzare.

Did you weigh the beans before and grounds after to make sure you were getting all of it out? - this should have been too much of a problem if you did multiple shots at once.

[dbun]

I have an M4D and an M2M. For whatever reason, grind inconsistency caused by a near empty chamber is much more noticeable on the M2M.

Testing over the weekend showed the same thing.

working hard to keep dose and tamp consistent, back-to-back shots did not pour consistently. It was only once I filled the hopper up again that I started to get back to consistent shots.

I'll have to play around with it a bit more.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I had the Macap M4D and never really had an issue with pop corning as such. I do remember that there could be some variation in grind speed due to the hopper level but it wasn't really an issue.
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I have an M4D and an M2M. For whatever reason, grind inconsistency caused by a near empty chamber is much more noticeable on the M2M. Maybe something to do with the smaller burrs on the M2M

[wattgn]

I had the Macap M4D and never really had an issue with pop corning as such. I do remember that there could be some variation in grind speed due to the hopper level but it wasn't really an issue.

The Robur my current grinder is the model fitted with an auger about the burrs to mitigate I guess the effect of hopper level and maybe to prevent this pop corning. I just fill it to the bottom of the hopper more or less and it isn't a problem. I think possibly flat burr grinders as they operate at a higher RPM are more prone to this effect of trying to eject the beans when the hopper level is low. On the Robur the movement of the beans, regardless of the level is in one direction, down. It tends to suck the beans down and it may be due to this auger and the low RPM of 500 RPM that the grinder operates at.

[simonsk8r]

This thread is great timing, I have recently won a Macap M2M at a local coffee festival this past weekend which I still have to pick up. I had been mentally willing my Smart Grinder Pro to die so that I could upgrade but the pesky thing is going strong, but this has been a better outcome!

As my preference is to single-dose I'll keep these tricks in mind as I'd rather not have to continuously fill & empty the hopper when I'm making only one or two coffees at a time (which is about 95% of the time).

I've already had a dig around the forum for other tricks, however does anyone care to offer any pointers?

Ah congrats on the win, that's awesome! As for filling and emptying hopper, some mornings I can only fit one coffee in, and honestly doesn't take me long at all, I'll time it next time, but I would say it's maybe 30 seconds all up. Close the gate, decant into bag, bug vacuum the rest and tip canister into bag, fairly quick.

But up to you of course, experiment with single dosing, when I did it I added a couple of grams extra first to purge through to get rid of any old grinds then put my proper amount in. If anything single dosing can be more time consuming depending on how you go about it (purge through little extra, sweep out, vacuum, grind up dose amount, brush excess beans into burrs as you go if they land outside burr area, purge, sweep out, purge etc).

Agree - it is more of a pain in the ass and the last bean or two will bounce around but eventually will get gobbled up in the process.

Yeah it's moreso what Barry alluded to, that the weight on top of the beans is pushing the beans through the burrs more consistently, resulting in a much more even consistent grind. But I'm no grinder expert at all so can't really confirm this, it does make sense, but many pros who go through kilos and kilos in a day do attest to this dodgy shot when you get to the last dregs of beans. Really must depend on grinder design perhaps..

[dbun]

In my experience I have found that if I switch from hopper dosing to single dosing, the single dose shot runs quite a lot faster and erratically, and definitely acts differently to when i have a full hopper.

I noticed that this morning when I tried it - I'll play around with grinding a bit finer to see if it improves.

I'll also do some checks to see how much it retains (if any) to make sure if I'm weighing out 20g I'm getting 20g in the basket.

[WhatEverBeansNecessary]

Towards the end of the grind, you're still going to end out with a situation where beans have nothing directly above them. I've tried a similar approach (and it does help), but my M2M is still more consistent if there are beans in the grind chamber throughout the grinding process. My M2M seems to be a bit more picky about this than my other grinders.

Agree - it is more of a pain in the ass and the last bean or two will bounce around but eventually will get gobbled up in the process.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I do the exact same thing - except I use a plastic take away sauce container that also doubles as a vessel to weigh beans into. Don't use the hopper at all as I am single dosing with a measured weight of beans.

Towards the end of the grind, you're still going to end out with a situation where beans have nothing directly above them. I've tried a similar approach (and it does help), but my M2M is still more consistent if there are beans in the grind chamber throughout the grinding process. My M2M seems to be a bit more picky about this than my other grinders.

[CoffeeHack]

This thread is great timing, I have recently won a Macap M2M at a local coffee festival this past weekend which I still have to pick up. I had been mentally willing my Smart Grinder Pro to die so that I could upgrade but the pesky thing is going strong, but this has been a better outcome!

As my preference is to single-dose I'll keep these tricks in mind as I'd rather not have to continuously fill & empty the hopper when I'm making only one or two coffees at a time (which is about 95% of the time).

I've already had a dig around the forum for other tricks, however does anyone care to offer any pointers?

[simonsk8r]

Certainly not my experience Simon, I can detect a marked deterioration if roasted beans are left exposed to air for 24 hours, ground coffee deteriorates even more rapidly, after just 15 hours it's undrinkable, I conducted a series of tests some time ago.
It's a mantra that's worth repeating, store beans in one way valve bags in a cool dark place until you use them.

I suspect a large percentage of problems related on this forum come down to this issue.

Fair enough, and that's good to know. But I wouldn't think leaving the beans in the hopper for only a couple of hours before putting back would have a massive deterioration.. (24 hours maybe a different story). Definitely for already ground coffee, but surely not whole beans for a couple of hours before they are decanted back into their one way valve bag.

I speak moreso from inquisitive curiosity rather than making conclusive statements, am genuinely curious hehe. It just seems that a lot of people say that most grinders are designed to be used for hopper dosing (I don't know enough about grinders to speak on this), so I do this for consistency purposes, but am happy to play around with single dosing with my Compak K3 Touch and see what happens. If others have also noted that leaving beans in the hopper for a couple of hours does indeed affect freshness dramatically then I shall definitely consider switching.

Ps. Am glad this topic has come back again hehe, would love for some of the other experienced folk to weigh in