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Macap M2M - fill hopper with only what you need?

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  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnA View Post
    my grinder is the kony e, and dare say works in the same way, requiring some beans in the hopper otherwise the grind completely changes as i have just found out.
    Definitely need to go coarser when the hopper has beans in it compared to just weighing beans for each shot

    Yeh, the M2M is a fairly extreme case of the need to charge the hopper though. The grind consistency changes really noticeably unless you have a decent payload in the hopper. I own and have owned a number of other grinders where the impact of the payload is far, far less that on the M2M. Great little grinder though.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnA
    replied
    my grinder is the kony e, and dare say works in the same way, requiring some beans in the hopper otherwise the grind completely changes as i have just found out.
    Definitely need to go coarser when the hopper has beans in it compared to just weighing beans for each shot

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnA View Post
    i tried single dosing for the first time over the last few days whilst i was dialling in for a new basket and bean i started using.
    Main reason i did it this way was because the amount of retention on the mazzer kony e, so if i had to make an adjustment, i wasnt throwing away a heap of coffee.
    once dialed it i was getting consistent shots, and beautiful results, so decided to go back to my old method of putting in enough beans in the hopper for my daily amount of coffees.
    I was amazed at the difference, from single dosing and consistent shots, it went to chokers, so would have had to grind a fair bit coarser to yield the same amount of liquid in the same time. 32 sec up to 44 second.
    I am not sure if i want to re dial in for a hopper full of beans compared to single dosing.
    However i was not expecting this result at all, and if someone had told me this would have happened, i think i would have laughed at them.

    Are you talking about the issue on the M2M or on the Koney e? The M2M needs a decent dose of beans, or a workaround that simulates this.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnA
    replied
    i tried single dosing for the first time over the last few days whilst i was dialling in for a new basket and bean i started using.
    Main reason i did it this way was because the amount of retention on the mazzer kony e, so if i had to make an adjustment, i wasnt throwing away a heap of coffee.
    once dialed it i was getting consistent shots, and beautiful results, so decided to go back to my old method of putting in enough beans in the hopper for my daily amount of coffees.
    I was amazed at the difference, from single dosing and consistent shots, it went to chokers, so would have had to grind a fair bit coarser to yield the same amount of liquid in the same time. 32 sec up to 44 second.
    I am not sure if i want to re dial in for a hopper full of beans compared to single dosing.
    However i was not expecting this result at all, and if someone had told me this would have happened, i think i would have laughed at them.

    Leave a comment:


  • alarcilam
    replied
    That's right, I wouldn't discard Single Dosing just yet for the summer days, I'll see how it goes, at the moment I am happy with the results.
    I am glad here in Melbourne we have almost 8 months of cool weather. I am attaching some photos now.. The grinder does not look that bad after all:

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  • simonsk8r
    replied
    Originally posted by alarcilam View Post
    Hi Dbun,

    I have been single dosing for at least 2 years in the M2M thinking that this method would keep my beans fresher everyday. However, I did notice that the beans deteriorate overtime by opening/closing my airtight container daily and a couple of shots a week were not as pleasant as the first ones. The containers I use dont hold more than 50grms of beans.

    2 weeks ago after looking at this post (thanks btw) I decided to give the "hopper" dosing a try. I added 300grs of beans, closed the lid and considering I only drink one milk coffee in the morning, the beans were there for almost a week. To my surprise I had the same experience on beans degradation that I had when single dosing.. no major difference but with some good advantages:

    consistency of my shots.
    -channeling was gone as I used to have minor channeling.
    -the workflow has improved as it is more convenient.

    I realised that the beans were deteriorating thanks to the hopper gate at the bottom and perhaps how loose the top lid was, so I decided to do some mods and since then, a week later, I can say that all my shots are as pleasant as the first one and way too consistent. Obviously you need to grind a couple of seconds to get rid of the old grinds stocked in the grinder from the previous day.

    So, this is what I did:

    1. I had a Bormioli Rocco - Ypsilon Brio Latte 220ml glass, that has a rubber wrap food safe approved. I removed the hopper's gate and took the rubber off the glass and wrapped it perfectly on the m2m hopper neck sealing the hopper's gate hole 100%, push it up as much as I could. This rubber piece fits perfectly in the m2m throat creating a "sealed" container extending the hopper capacity a little bit.

    2. For the top, I was lucky enough to see that my Airscape container middle lid was also a perfect fit creating a sealed container. Thanks to the function of this lid I also find out that not much air is introduced from the chute as it is normally full of grinds in between the chamber,burrs and chute. I am sure if one was to put his head in the grinder chamber not much oxygen would be there to survive :-). Leaving the chute opened also allows for fresher beans to breath a bit.

    As I said, I have been testing this mod for a week, full hopper, only one coffee every 24 hours.. and my palate is enjoying it.

    I decided to post my mods just in case they are useful for other users. I'll be posting some photos in the evening once I am back home.

    Cheers.
    Ah that sounds fascinating, good on ya for giving them mods a go! Yeah would love to see photos. And yes definitely consistency improves. At the end of a session I'll just bag the beans back up and get as many beans out of the throat as possible, takes no time at all. But I've always wondered about a method to keep the hopper lid and chute airtight... but definitely keep in mind that temperature and light also have an effect on bean quality deterioration. Also to let any remaining gas to leave the beans.

    One-way valve bags in a cool dark place works well for this, but I'm intrigued about your idea, and if you find that taste isn't affected that's awesome

    Leave a comment:


  • alarcilam
    replied
    Originally posted by dbun View Post
    I've currently been filling my M2M hopper at least half way and then emptying the hopper back into the bag after making coffee - the reason being I felt the M2M had too much "popcorn" effect and thought it would affect the grind quality.

    I'm not so keen in the residual beans that sit in the neck of the grinder.

    Is anyone weighing the beans first and only dispensing say 20g at a time for each shot?
    Hi Dbun,

    I have been single dosing for at least 2 years in the M2M thinking that this method would keep my beans fresher everyday. However, I did notice that the beans deteriorate overtime by opening/closing my airtight container daily and a couple of shots a week were not as pleasant as the first ones. The containers I use dont hold more than 50grms of beans.

    2 weeks ago after looking at this post (thanks btw) I decided to give the "hopper" dosing a try. I added 300grs of beans, closed the lid and considering I only drink one milk coffee in the morning, the beans were there for almost a week. To my surprise I had the same experience on beans degradation that I had when single dosing.. no major difference but with some good advantages:

    consistency of my shots.
    -channeling was gone as I used to have minor channeling.
    -the workflow has improved as it is more convenient.

    I realised that the beans were deteriorating thanks to the hopper gate at the bottom and perhaps how loose the top lid was, so I decided to do some mods and since then, a week later, I can say that all my shots are as pleasant as the first one and way too consistent. Obviously you need to grind a couple of seconds to get rid of the old grinds stocked in the grinder from the previous day.

    So, this is what I did:

    1. I had a Bormioli Rocco - Ypsilon Brio Latte 220ml glass, that has a rubber wrap food safe approved. I removed the hopper's gate and took the rubber off the glass and wrapped it perfectly on the m2m hopper neck sealing the hopper's gate hole 100%, push it up as much as I could. This rubber piece fits perfectly in the m2m throat creating a "sealed" container extending the hopper capacity a little bit.

    2. For the top, I was lucky enough to see that my Airscape container middle lid was also a perfect fit creating a sealed container. Thanks to the function of this lid I also find out that not much air is introduced from the chute as it is normally full of grinds in between the chamber,burrs and chute. I am sure if one was to put his head in the grinder chamber not much oxygen would be there to survive :-). Leaving the chute opened also allows for fresher beans to breath a bit.

    As I said, I have been testing this mod for a week, full hopper, only one coffee every 24 hours.. and my palate is enjoying it.

    I decided to post my mods just in case they are useful for other users. I'll be posting some photos in the evening once I am back home.

    Cheers.

    Leave a comment:


  • wattgn
    replied
    Same here in terms of keeping it simple. I don’t want to turn a simple espresso making exercise into some sort of complex alchemy.

    One thing I do think is important though is to make sure that the basket is dry but aside from that I time the Robur by estimation and almost always get it bang on. I aim simply to get the basket filled level with the top by smoothing over with my finger then just give it a good firm tamp. No Freemason type manoeuvres with the tamper.

    I get consistent results.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magic_Matt
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    Never found it necessary to do this with any grinder I've owned...
    Perhaps due to the so-called 'Nutating Tamp' that I've always used, decent distribution is taken care of.

    Never been a fan of introducing extra steps into the espresso equation though and have never found it necessary to deviate from what 'just works'...

    Mal.
    Same here; an extra step is just another opportunity for human error and inconsistency - and the need for one is generally indicative of an issue elsewhere ime.

    I use a grind on demand grinder and simply keep the level of beans in the hopper as low as possible to still prevent popcorning and inconsistent grind times. The throat on the ECM V-Titan is very narrow, which helps avoid any issues with stale beans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    I've also found that giving the grounds a good swizzle in the portafilter with a multi-prong skewer-like device helps to get good flow - so perhaps this fines distribution is to blame. Same kind of thing used to be required in single dosing the M4 …
    Never found it necessary to do this with any grinder I've owned...
    Perhaps due to the so-called 'Nutating Tamp' that I've always used, decent distribution is taken care of.

    Never been a fan of introducing extra steps into the espresso equation though and have never found it necessary to deviate from what 'just works'...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • simonsk8r
    replied
    Originally posted by noonar View Post
    Barista Hustle also (jovially) warns that smaller particles will have a tendency to over extract whilst the larger sizes may or may not under extract (it's all so flippin dependent on countless variables), which could be good or bad - it comes down to the results in the cup - as always. Yes I have had roasts that taste excessively ashy and I have put that down to that particular bean/roast suffering over extraction of fines when single dosing. To test I then put the hopper on and fill up with the suspect and grind out the usual 20g - after dialling in, the result is, usually, no need to WDT and the ashyness is reduced substantially. It rarely happens - and always when I try a new bean or roast profile and I am fine tuning - pun intended.
    Ah well said. Results in the cup is really always the hallmark to go by, honestly if we counted all the different variables and then try to control every single one of them, you'd be in a lot of pain haha.. There are an infinite number of variables, even assuming that a grinder has the ability to grind and produce particles that are exaaaactly the same size as each other is not possible.

    But even when I'm grinding for filter brews, I always single dose that (wouldn't make sense to fill a hopper for that), and I'm sure even filter brews need pretty even particle sizes just like espresso (perhaps not as crucial though?). But what you said about distributing fines has now got me in the practice of giving the grounds for filter a good stir before brewing. I'm assuming that's why many competitors sift the grounds in competition, but I just made a delightful V60 without needing to sift, just gave the grounds a good stir to try distribute them around evenly, even though I'm sure the fines would overextract and the others may underextract, who knows!

    Leave a comment:


  • noonar
    replied
    Barista Hustle also (jovially) warns that smaller particles will have a tendency to over extract whilst the larger sizes may or may not under extract (it's all so flippin dependent on countless variables), which could be good or bad - it comes down to the results in the cup - as always. Yes I have had roasts that taste excessively ashy and I have put that down to that particular bean/roast suffering over extraction of fines when single dosing. To test I then put the hopper on and fill up with the suspect and grind out the usual 20g - after dialling in, the result is, usually, no need to WDT and the ashyness is reduced substantially. It rarely happens - and always when I try a new bean or roast profile and I am fine tuning - pun intended.

    Leave a comment:


  • DesigningByCoffee
    replied
    Originally posted by noonar View Post
    Whilst not having the weight of a full hopper of beans can cause excess fines with some bean types/roast levels, which leads to pour consistency problems, generally the issues caused by the extra fines can easily be overcome as long as they can be reasonably evenly distributed.
    When experiencing the excess fines that can be caused by single dosing by some roasts, into a machine that is not designed for such functions, I use WDT to distribute all the tiny particles evenly (AFAHP) amongst their bigger buddies, hopefully ensuring an even flow of water through the puck. From what I have read it is not the fines that cause the consistency problems but their distribution or lack of it - bring on the Niche - which hopefully ends the pour inconsistency problems caused by poor distribution of coffee fines resulting from single dosing on non-single dosing designed machines.
    I certainly think this is true.

    I single dose the Robur, and firstly I have to substantially fine-up the grind to get a good pour (think mark 7 down to 4.5 on the main crown wheel - where when fully loaded 7 to 9 is espresso to plunger!). I've also found that giving the grounds a good swizzle in the portafilter with a multi-prong skewer-like device helps to get good flow - so perhaps this fines distribution is to blame. Same kind of thing used to be required in single dosing the M4 …

    There is also a visually noticable shift in grind fluffiness and consistency that I only see when going back to a full hopper. Having said that – to reach that point on the big conical takes about 200g of coffee through before it settles down to work - so not and everyday process!!

    There is some change in flavour with single dosing but it is subtle. But I've learned to leave with it – because you certainly can't turn over a Robur and shake the beans out!

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Originally posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah wow I've never heard that theory before.. that's fascinating.. I may have to give that a go.. so it's a matter of just redistributing the fines evenly throughout the puck so they're not all clumped together at the top or a specific location..
    I don't doubt the theory (it makes sense), but with an M2M you are simply better off loading more beans than you need. Distributing fines helps, but you get a different amount of them each time if you try single dosing the M2M, and this affects consistency. If desperate, the grinder is small enough to comfortably tip upside down and recover the unused beans at the end of the session.

    Leave a comment:


  • simonsk8r
    replied
    Originally posted by noonar View Post
    Whilst not having the weight of a full hopper of beans can cause excess fines with some bean types/roast levels, which leads to pour consistency problems, generally the issues caused by the extra fines can easily be overcome as long as they can be reasonably evenly dsitributed.

    When experiencing the excess fines that can be caused by single dosing by some roasts, into a machine that is not designed for such functions, I use WDT to distribute all the tiny particles evenly (AFAHP) amongst their bigger buddies, hopefully ensuring an even flow of water through the puck. From what I have read it is not the fines that cause the consistency problems but their distribution or lack of it - bring on the Niche - which hopefully ends the pour inconsistency problems caused by poor distribution of coffee fines resulting from single dosing on non-single dosing designed machines.

    Even distribution of particle sizes appears to be the key.
    Ah wow I've never heard that theory before.. that's fascinating.. I may have to give that a go.. so it's a matter of just redistributing the fines evenly throughout the puck so they're not all clumped together at the top or a specific location..

    Leave a comment:

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