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  • #16
    Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

    I find small grinders (eg Sunbeam doserless) are effected more than the bigger ones (Mazzer)

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    • #17
      Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

      I cant see how having one bean or a kilo of beans in the hopper would affect the grind size.

      Surely that would be determined not by the weight of beans on the burrs, but the spacing of the burrs.

      -Robusto

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      • #18
        Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

        I reckon you could put some rice(got rice?):P into a greanbean bag and put it into a hopper and it will shape itself into the shape of the hopper and giving it weight, which hopefully doesnt get eaten up by the burrs. That shouldnt happen with the EM0480 though since it has a little cap thing. Havnt tried but it shouldnt...

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        • #19
          Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

          Its interesting. It may be due to my poor technique - which in all honesty may be it! *shrugs*

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          • #20
            Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

            Originally posted by richy_4000 link=1184501068/0#6 date=1184504736
            Well, I must say I only notice the difference in the grind when the beans get REALLY low... as in, the last shot or two before my weight cant put any weight on the beans anymore.

            Robusto, what makes you so confident in dismissing Lord Bassetts divinely inspired wisdom ;D? You didnt say why you disagree, you just that you disagreed. Just as a matter of interest that is.
            HaHa. I dont know about divine inspiration. Im sure that his advice is good for his commercial environment where, as I said, theyll churn through a kilo of beans in no time.

            But for say, me, to use a kilo of beans would take about 2 weeks. I dont think having that many beans out of their air-tight container for two weeks is going to do them any good.

            -Robusto


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            • #21
              Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

              having the two grinders side by side on the bench, it has been interesting to observe the difference in the "pop corning"...

              Rocky (without the finger guard) has virtually no jumpers, perhaps one every 5 or 6 seconds..... whereas Ms Carimali throws the beans around like there is no tomorrow!!

              if i want to single-dose grind and operate Ms Carimali without the mini hopper i have to hold my hand on her throat to stop the beans from going everywhere and after grinding there will be a layer of coarsely broken beans sitting on the sloping-down part of the throat which needs to be wiped/pushed down into the burrs.

              and, it may be my imagination, but when i pull shots using Ms Carimali s grinds "grinding through the doser" or from (inadvertently..) "the last beans in the mini hopper ", they seem to blond faster...
              i am now making sure Ms Carimali always has a weight of beans on her throat.

              L

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              • #22
                Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                Considering the limited amount of coffee I drink at home ( one or two per day) this thread has made me think twice on upgrading from my handgrinder to something better, say an IBERITAL.

                I like the fact I can grind small amounts of any particular bean or blend on a given day with minimal waste, and knowing that my different types of beans are hermetically stored until they are to be ground. I might not get the better crema I would only get with a finer grind, but that is made up for the nice little shots I currently get which are custom blended to suit my mercurial moods.

                THe hand grinding is relaxing too without the shrill of the electic burr.

                Hand grinding advocate, Jason

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                • #23
                  Re: "popcorning" inside grinders


                  I generally have little trouble with pop corning with the Rocky grinder. So my hopper is always empty and I put in just enough beans to grind for the required number of coffees that Im making. I do notice the occasional bean jump around but it doesnt make any difference to my coffee. If anything, that very last bean thats hopping around will be just grind that I will throw away when I next make my coffee, as I always discard the first couple of seconds of old grind anyway.

                  Lawrance

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                  • #24
                    Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                    Ive got an EM0480 and have also noticed that the more beans I have in the hopper, the more evenly and quicker the grinds seem to come out of the chute.

                    As Im the only coffee drinker in the house and I cant be bothered emptying the hopper each time after Ive used it, I just keep mine about a quarter fill and use my tamper as a weight on top of the beans. This seems to have the same effect as having the hopper full.

                    As Im usually grinding coffee both in the morning and once or twice in the evening, I figure that the beans arent being left out for too long to go stale. Once a week though, Ill empty it and give it a good clean.

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                    • #25
                      Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                      Maybe "pop-corning", where it occurs, has more to do with the peripheral velocity of the rotating burr plate, the shape of the grinding chamber and the profile of the feed chute into the grinding chamber. As Lizzi has observed above, I too rarely noticed this phenomenon occurring with Rocky as I only ever load and grind the beans Im going to use immediately. It is more noticeable in the LSM grinder but the grind size is unaffected and as Robusto stated above, how could it anyway.... the burr-plate gap hasnt changed and thats the only way out for the beans.

                      Perhaps there is something more to this than any effect that pop-corning is being attributed with.... Yet another mystery ,

                      Mal.

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                      • #26
                        Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                        My view on this, based on observations of conical burs only, is that having a head on the beans at the burrs does have an impact on grind.

                        I suspect beans without a head bounce around much more and are more prone to being smashed, and/or, the beans are shaved thinner as the pressure between bean and burr is lower. Having a head pushing the beans against/through the burrs changes the grinding characteristics.

                        A very obvious example is when I grind using a Zass manual grinder, the last portion of the beans, without a head, hang up in the burrs, i.e. they do not feed through at all well, and tend to grind to dust. This is more due to the poor feeding characteristics (i.e. pressure from above), but I think the principle is the same.

                        As others have mentioned I perceive the grind to be better through the EM0480s, conical burrs if the hopper is loaded. Ive found I have to change the grind setting if I grind with just the required amount of beans. The result is still okay, but the characteristics of the grind certainly change.

                        Does anyone work in a lab that can do grist (sieve) analysis, I used to have access to this type of equipment...

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                        • #27
                          Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                          From Robustos comments it looks as if the Iberital Challenge popcorns alot and is therefore not a good grinder if you want to feed small quantities of beans into to test blends etc ie hopperless use.

                          Does anyone disagree with this?

                          I was eyeing off the IC as a future grinder purchase and like to grind just enough beans each day rather than having a full hopper.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                            Beanhead, I disagree with your conclusion that the Iberital Challenge is not a good grinder.

                            It IS a good grinder in may respects. But even good grinders have shortcomings, irrespective of whether they use conical or flat burrs, cost $300 or $1300.

                            Others may disagree, but my experience over two years with this grinder is that you cannot feed in 20 grams of beans, and expect 20 grams of grounds in the basket.

                            Grounds get trapped and build up in the grinding chamber, clinging to areas where the sweeper does not reach.

                            And Im talking about a doserless here. Could be worse still with a doser

                            It can be messy. Very messy. If you stick to 14 grams in the basket, that is not an issue. But when you have to heap the basket to collapse and level, it is a big issue which is straining my maritial relationship (a little hyperbole here).

                            Popcorning? Yes, it does. But even the last stubborn bean will eventually succumb.

                            Now, these "problems" or "shortcomings" are not unique to the Iberital

                            And, they are quite unrelated to what really counts: the qualaity of grind.

                            On that score, a very important one, it is an excellent grinder.

                            Construction wise: It has conical burrs set in very robust plastic. Brass or bronze bush bearings . Reduction gearing to give it a slow speed so it maximises power and does not heat the beans.

                            If I were to upgrade -- and being me I am sure I will -- it will be for two reasons:

                            -to eliminate the mess (and save the marriage!)
                            -to get an easier mechanism for changing grind setting.


                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                              Originally posted by Beanhead link=1184501068/15#26 date=1187768230
                              From Robustos comments it looks as if the Iberital Challenge popcorns alot and is therefore not a good grinder if you want to feed small quantities of beans into to test blends etc ie hopperless use.

                              Does anyone disagree with this?

                              I was eyeing off the IC as a future grinder purchase and like to grind just enough beans each day rather than having a full hopper.
                              I am very, very happy to disagree with your comment ;D

                              Firstly, has anyone actually done any sort of experiment to prove the evils of letting your beans be exposed to the air for a few days? At work I usually like to cut the bags that I intend to use open a few hours or even the day before I intend to use them. This seems to stop me from having to change the grind as much. Competitors at barista competitions do the same thing.

                              I cant actually see where Robusto said that the Iberital popcorns a lot. And popcorns a lot relative to what, exactly? The throat that feeds the burrs is a good deal narrower than the throat on the mini. If anything, I would expect it to popcorn less than a grinder with a larger throat. However, the smaller throat means that if you want to physically remove the hopper there will not be enough space above the burrs for a whole double shot of beans.

                              As Robusto says, the Iberital certainly does have its shortcomings. But bottom line, it produces a very good cup at a very reasonable price point.

                              If you want a grinder that is designed to be used for grinding a single dose at a time, I suggest that you buy a Versalab M3 and put up with the potential durability issues that some of its users have flagged. If not, I really dont see whats so difficult about keeping a hundred grams of beans in the hopper at the time. If you want something that will be easy to change around for different beans, I suggest that you get something with a mazzer style grind adjustment (ie. stepless collar that allows wide movements easily) and a bean gate to close off the hopper.

                              Hope that helps,

                              Luca

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                              • #30
                                Re: "popcorning" inside grinders

                                Yes, Luca, the sliding gate for when the loaded hopper has to be removed -- forgot to mention that.

                                Its a nuisance to have to tip the whole grinder, hopper and all horizontly, to move the beans from the throat and into the top end so they dont spill out everywhere.

                                But again, while all these anciliary things make life easier, they have no bearing on the essential function of the machine: to produce quality grounds.

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