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Best grinder for convenient home espresso: Baratza Sette vs Mahlkonig Vario vs ???

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  • Best grinder for convenient home espresso: Baratza Sette vs Mahlkonig Vario vs ???

    Hi Snobs,

    I want to buy the best grinder I can for my purposes (which is low volume, mostly espresso, flat whites and long blacks), but I'm not sure that simply means buying a really high-end grinder.

    I'm currently using a Mazzer Mini and that has really opened my eyes to the differences between shop grinders and home grinders. None of these things would be a problem in a shop:
    • grind retention means I spend ~1 minute each time I make coffee, cleaning out the chute. The chute holds around 3g of coffee, and there's more I can't get to around the burrs.
    • grind retention also means I spent weeks chasing the perfect grind back and forward, with occasional surprises when (I assume) old grinds pop out and change a cup
    • lack of consistency with weight delivered after cleaning means I have to weigh every shot
    • micrometric adjustment means I'm not game to grind for plunger or pourover coffee, so I have to use a second grinder for that. I'm already using a separate grinder for decaf so that has to live in the cupboard!
    • I like to change beans a lot, and the above problems conspire to make that really inconvenient.

    Inconvenience leads to mistakes, which lead to bad coffee, which makes me sad.

    So, I'm (reactively?) considering a Baratza Sette Wi.
    Simonsk8r loves his: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/...tte-270wi.html
    Practically zero grind retention might allow me to use a single grinder for everything!

    But I want to make the best coffee I can, and I have budgeted to spend more money if it will get me a better result.
    Also I have seen talk about the Sette breaking (but maybe the Sette Wi is better?)
    And, maybe everything is so much better than the Mini that I needn't worry about grind retention. WholeLatteLove have a test on YouTube where the Mini retained 3+ grams and nothing else retained even close to 1 gram.

    Level3Ninja recommended a Mahlkonig Vario over the Sette. Sounds like good advice. Do I lose the ability to weigh beans though? Should I care? There is a Mahlkonig Vario W sold in NZ (and the Baratza version elsewhere) but I don't see it anywhere in Aus. The Vario W can't weigh directly into a portafilter at any rate.

    Should I forget about the built-in scale, and grind retention? I want to make my coffee process more foolproof but perhaps I'm getting carried away?

    What about the Baratza Forte? This old thread would suggest it's not worth the bother. Would people still agree with that?
    The Eureka Atom seems well-liked at a similar(ish) price point. Other than grinding for plunger coffee, would it be a better choice? Quieter, which would be nice. Better coffee too? Still convenient for my use?
    I am OK with paying ~$1200, but I probably can't afford a Super Jolly Electronic (for this scale mod).
    There are dozens of other grinders about. Does anyone have a different recommendation?

    Thanks all.

  • #2
    Google has helped me find a thread I missed before:
    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/...nd-weight.html - suggests the Vario is perfect for my needs for espresso but I'll be changing burrs if I want decent plunger coffee. (Or practically, I'll need to keep a second grinder for plunger.)
    I'm still unsure how much I should care about the built-in scale.

    Comment


    • #3
      Have a good look at the Niche Zero grinder!
      You will find it will tick most if not all the boxes.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have just upgraded to the Vario from the Baratza Sette W and it was indeed an upgrade. Whilst the grind by weight feature of the Sette was convenient, the Vario does almost everything else better and hopefully it will last longer*.

        The improvement in grind quality is measurable (increased extraction at the same profile) and IMO easily tasteable. That being said I don't drink filter, pourover or milkydrinks so I can only comment on how it works with espresso.

        I find setting the grind on the Vario easier and I seem to have to fiddle with it less.

        When SO permits the hopper to be left empty, I get good results single dosing through the Vario.

        The hopper design is IMO the letdown on the Vario: it lacks any means of stopping the beans falling out if you want to remove the hopper while there are beans in it (see above re SO and single dosing). Also the safety interlock is a bit fiddly on mine, it often takes three or four goes to get it to click in without applying undue force.

        No matter which grinder you buy, get yourself a Tiamo dosing cup, it makes grinding by weight / single dosing supremely easy. I had to bend the Vario portafilter arms a little to make it fit: I just took them off and mounted them in a vice to achieve this.

        *My Sette died at less than 2 years old and the repair cost quoted by the local distributor (once they actually got back to me after several calls and emails) was completely OTT. I have given the grinder away to someone who is replacing the faceplate to make it a plain Sette (non -W) and it is good riddance.
        Last edited by Lyrebird; 6 February 2019, 05:39 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks! Good info about the Vario and the dosing cup idea, and the Niche Zero. Single dosing might be a good/appropriate way for me to make coffee.

          This thread suggests the Eureka Atom is not the grinder for someone who likes to change beans often. So I think that's out.

          Two follow-up questions:
          1. Is the Mahlkonig Vario here different from the Baratza Vario overseas? Reason I ask is that the Baratza Forte is just an upgraded Vario (right?) and has a nice shutter on the bottom of the hopper, so perhaps that would be a good one to get.
          2. The Niche Zero looks a little "Silicon Valley" to me, exciting new ideas but not yet proven in practice. Can anyone comment on how well it works in real life? (I have read roughly 20 pages of this thread on coffeeforums.co.uk...people seem happy...maybe I'll give it a try...)
          Last edited by MichaelB; 7 February 2019, 04:00 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MichaelB View Post
            Can anyone comment on how well it works in real life?
            A single dosers ally. Suits my work flow and so consistent, simple to adjust (although rarely have to), clean, quiet, just does the single dose thing very well indeed. I switched from a mini e which has now grayed into insignificance. Good Luck MB. I was a first adopter via the funding site, never done that before - no regrets. Not a fan boy BTW, just like things to perform as per the label and expectations.

            Comment


            • #7
              I purchased my Niche Zero through the funding site.
              I was using a Compak K10WBC for over 8 years, the Niche is now my full-time grinder.

              The single dosing, ultra low grind retention and small unit size make this the ideal grinder for me.

              The ground coffee produced is the same as the K10, with a lot less noise.
              It has actually made my workflow quicker and simpler.

              Another bonus is I can adjust it for a V60 grind or back to an espresso grind in less than a second without loosing a previous setting.
              My wife uses it grinding for her Aeropress, finally stopped using her hand grinder.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like the Vario and Niche Zero are both good options for me. I'm going to go with the Niche Zero. I think that gives me a better chance at being able to use one grinder for espresso and plunger, and using a variety of beans including decaf.

                I will report back once I have it working.

                Thanks again!

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                • #9
                  Don’t believe you will be sorry with your choice. Went from Macap M4D to the Niche and my only gripe is it’s looks which is a personal call. I have the Macap that I will get around to listing in the sale section eventually but can’t see me ditching the niche in the foreseeable future. The first grinder or machine that Mrs Mono has complained that it is f##n huge. I always said that I didn’t want a grinder to be the first thing your eyes were attracted to when you enter our kitchen. The niche is anything but that. No frills FA to go wrong with it and a large conical in a small flats body. Ok it may not be going in a hundred years but neither will I. Happy adopter here.

                  SM

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                  • #10
                    Those with the Niche.... any issues with "popcorning"? I watched the video on their website as to how it works and there is serious popcorning obvious. I have had this issue with my Compaq when I single dose and it has affected my shots and reduced Crema, due to the inconsistent ground size. Just wondering whether anyone else has considered this.

                    Cheers,

                    Mark

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                    • #11
                      RE popcorning, posted this back in December 18 and is a non-issue in my experience, still using the "temporary" paper cup cut off, works great:

                      "8 Weeks in with the Niche and yes its grind has improved - if that is possible as the starting point for me was a remarkable improvement in workflow and grind consistency over the mini e. No regrets at all. As mentioned elsewhere popping beans during grinding can case shards to find their way onto the workbench, currently and temporarily, I am using the cut off top of a paper cup (think of egg rings shape) that very snuggly fits between the lid and the bean entry chute and forms a loose seal when the lid is down - this has stopped escaping shards. Still very impressed with the Niche and actually enjoy using it!"

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                      • #12
                        I went from a Smart Grinder to a Sette and I can't say I'm overwhelmed with the Sette. Everyday usage is a bit of a lottery.

                        It often doesn't grind up to the specified weight (You asked for 20g but you're only getting 16 and you're going to like it). I thought I'd fix that by making the third setting 4g but it jolts when you use such a low setting, which shifts the group handle which disturbs the scales which stops the grind. It's *really* frustrating.

                        I was kind of hoping that the drop was longer too so I could put one of those sleeves in to stop ground coffee going everywhere, but it's quite short which means if the grinds don't fall away into the basket, it stops the grind.

                        When it works, it's great, but I think a well set-up Vario will be less frustrating. I really like the Sette concept, but the execution is wanting.

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                        • #13
                          Best grinder for convenient home espresso: Baratza Sette vs Mahlkonig Vario vs ???

                          Originally posted by slugga View Post
                          I went from a Smart Grinder to a Sette and I can't say I'm overwhelmed with the Sette. Everyday usage is a bit of a lottery.
                          Was there a noticeable improvement in shot quality (when the Sette is behaving itself)?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dischucker View Post
                            Was there a noticeable improvement in shot quality (when the Sette is behaving itself)?
                            Oh, absolutely. As I said, it's really good when it's working properly, it's just too sensitive to any movement - if you drop something on the floor it stops. I'd be quite happy with one that didn't have the scales and perhaps should investigate some sort of metal cup to grind into and then tip it into the group handle. It would be much cleaner, too, with less ground coffee flying around.

                            I didn't mean to be *quite* so hard on it :-D

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by slugga View Post
                              Oh, absolutely. As I said, it's really good when it's working properly, it's just too sensitive to any movement - if you drop something on the floor it stops. I'd be quite happy with one that didn't have the scales and perhaps should investigate some sort of metal cup to grind into and then tip it into the group handle. It would be much cleaner, too, with less ground coffee flying around.

                              I didn't mean to be *quite* so hard on it :-D
                              Sorry if you answered this already but do you have the 270W or 270WI? The WI seems like it fixed quite a few issues similar to the ones you described.

                              Having asked that, I'm thinking of getting either the 270 or Vario, as I can live without the built-in scales and there are reports both grinders can be used in "single dosing" mode anyway. 270 seems great value at ~$450 so I'm leaning that way.

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