Seems Legit...NOT

[flashpixx]

Sorry I don't understand emojis, I cannot tell whether you are being facetious or not.

If not, you should check out Carbotec Industrial.

Flashpix, Lyrebird is in the cycle industry, Lyrebird Cycles

ah ha now I understand the response

[338]

Flashpix, Lyrebird is in the cycle industry, Lyrebird Cycles

[flashpixx]

Sorry I don't understand emojis, I cannot tell whether you are being facetious or not.

If not, you should check out Carbotec Industrial.

Not at all, trying to be humourous....

Pinarello is a high end bicycle manufacturer based in Italy that has fallen victim to Chinese knock-offs. There are ways a buyer can ensure they have purchased the genuine article but as we all know buyers are not always smart.

[338]

I cannot imagine any practical use for a watch these days.
TampIt

G'day Tampit, just to help your imagination along, watches are amazingly useful to people who like to be punctual and know what time it is - but don't like to be tethered to a phone. Or wedded to a charger.

Said with a smile, just to point out there are a few ways to skin a cat.

[dan77]

The risks of outsourcing your manufacturing to China.

...or it could be a result of being hacked and they might not even know it happened. There has even been reports of knock off products being released to the market before the real product get's released.

That would be my tip to what happened.

[TampIt]

This statement is not entirely accurate. The swiss mark of swiss made has become rather lax over time. Several small components do come from china. However the assembly and large castings are in house from all watches marked swiss made. Springs, levers, balance wheels and several other components do come from overseas. There is no regulating regarding them.

QC in China is terrible. They can knock a product fast and economies of scale mean they make more than enough cheaply to justify poor quality standards and an increased QC failure rate. None if this is high tech manufacturing, Please a coffee grinder does not qualify as equipment made to high tolerances.

The scientific equipment and medical devices manufacturers are dealing with the dramas manufacturing there brings. For most companies it has involved heavy investment into their own factories. Equipment that is truly high tech and built to stringent quality standards have had poorer durability since moving manufacturing to China. Companies are aware, customers are aware, but again, it's cheaper for them at this time.

G'day Caffinator

... and the whole Rolex thing reminds me exactly why I "permanently retired" my Seiko Sportsmatic5 after 20+ years of faithful accurate service. The fifth or sixth mobile I bought had a clock linked to the GSM network... My wrist is forever grateful. I cannot imagine any practical use for a watch these days.

Oh, and good coffee grinders are equipment made to very high tolerances indeed. That is one reason why they should be treated like a precision instrument and not abused.

My Swiss made gen2 and gen3 Mahlkoenig Varios have their micro adjustment so fine that you can not even feel or see the burrs move until the 3rd or 4th step. That is why a single "micro step" only makes about 1/2 second difference to the pour (circa 1% change, I suspect). That is not possible without true precision engineering. That is why I keep seeing posts from idiots that state that one micro step makes no difference at all. It does - just use 0.1g scales and put it through a Decent DE1 and it comes up on the graph as plain as day. Add another step and add another 1/2 second to the pour. It also makes the old "stepless is better" argument fade away - it is so much easier to go by the numbers.

Speaking of cars - an interesting court case from a while back: The Chevy Lumina was the victim of a 100% copy (Seeley? or Geeley? - it has been a while). The original sold 75K cars, the copy sold 300K in China domestically. AFAIC recall, although the case was won by Chevy nothing actually happened to the (blatant) copier.

Makes me enjoy my Swiss grinder into a Hong Kong made espresso machine all the more - both are high quality bits of kit that deliver in spades...

TampIt

[Lyrebird]

Sorry I don't understand emojis, I cannot tell whether you are being facetious or not.

If not, you should check out Carbotec Industrial.

[flashpixx]

Similar story makes the rounds in the bike industry: cheap Chinese carbon frame + expensive Italian paint job = "Made in Italy" under the 60% value rule.

Not my Pinarello

[Lyrebird]

Similar story makes the rounds in the bike industry: cheap Chinese carbon frame + expensive Italian paint job = "Made in Italy" under the 60% value rule.

[PaulPratt]

A mate of mine used to work in Thailand for a watch movement factory. One of the biggest as well. I remember my first real watch was the 90's Seamaster Pro, we had a coffee shop opposite the office of Swatchgroup and were always chatting to them. One day the staff told me my watch cost very little to make, I was horrified as at the time I spent 1 month's salary on it!

My take having been living in HK now for 20 years is that you can get whatever quality you want from China, it is up to you as the buyer to ensure it meets your standards. With regards our industry I would say all stainless steel portafilters, and probably pumps are made in China. All big name filter baskets and screens are made in China, if you ignore IMS then all would be done there. Probably a lot of the stainless group castings and steam valves are made there as well, shipped back to Italy and voila Made in Italy. Italy is good and inexpensive for chromed brass, China for stainless investment cast.

If you look at the tool market, at say the infamous USA store Harbour Freight it is generally accepted that the items are cheap and not well made. Is it a case that Harbour Freight are being fleeced by their manufacturers? most probably not, it is what they have asked for and received - although I am sure they work like crazy to stay on top of that standard as well.


Regarding IP issues, China has tightened up a lot in recent years. Almost everytime now with a new supplier we have to prove we own our trademark and brand. We have successfully removed copies from Taobao - something we have never managed to achieve on Amazon. I look back 10 years now when the first copies of the cafelat stuff came out, a US company was the first, then the Italians and then the Australians. If you look at the silicone seals we make, you will find a US company has copied them exactly, even using the exact same colour codes as mine!

I'll leave you all with a story my mate who manuf. cookwares told me. He make saucepans for an Italian brand, but ship the handle and pan in separate boxes. The Italian company merely rivets the handle in place and Made in Italy.

[338]

After Seiko, Rolex probably make more of their watches than anyone else in the industry, I would believe they are made in Switzerland. That said, there was a big furore in the watch industry a few years back when the percentage 'by value' needed to use the label 'Swiss Made' went from 51% to 60%, not quite what you think when you read Swiss Made. Especially true when the final casing using Swiss labour rates allows a huge percentage to be made in a lower cost region, potentially the whole watch. - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN1E01YT

Interesting fact Rolex is 100% owned by a charity which some wonder what it does with it's profit (the beauty of Swiss tax laws!) and while the dealers always tell you there is a shortage, they actually make something like 800,000 every year.

[yilmaz]

Oops, it was prior to getting caffeinated - took my first hit of Sulawesi Blue... after posting.

[Caffeinator]

Who is this copycat Caffinator?

[yilmaz]

Caffinator, would love a source on Rolex sourcing from China, always thought it was a reaction allowing for watches to be called Swiss is movement assembled there and bulk of materials made in Switzerland. I have not yet come across anything solid. There has been whispers of Omega sourcing the bracelets and some other minor parts from China, but not Rolex?

[Dimal]

So, Rolex are lying...

Mal.