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Splitting the Grinders category

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  • #16
    Re: Splitting the Grinders category

    Good idea

    My $0.02 ... I guess that we really have four or so categories of grinder:

    (a) Non-Espresso/Inadequate

    Blade grinders of all sorts and burr grinders with terrible burrs or very very large steps. I guess that a question that I would have with this category is whether any of the non-espresso grinders are actually worthwhile for brewed coffee methods?

    (b) Domestic

    This would basically be your sub $500ish group including the conicals with smaller motors and the flat burr grinders with bigger motors. These grinders are ones that you will probably want to upgrade from at some stage because either they simply wont last a lifetime or because you might tire of a stepped adjustment mechanism.

    (c) Prosumer/Commercial

    This would basically have your mazzer mini and super jolly class grinders, seeing as many CSers seem to go for second-hand 64mm flat burr grinders for home and they are often available second-hand at similar prices to the 58mm burr grinders. The real difference between the 58mm and 64mm flat burrs strikes me as speed, rather than grind quality.

    (d) Heavy Commercial

    This would basically have your 83mm flat burrs and conicals in it, seeing as these dont really seem to make it into homes much and are much faster than the 64mms.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    • #17
      Re: Splitting the Grinders category

      I like it.

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      • #18
        Re: Splitting the Grinders category

        I like Lucas idea the best so far

        KK

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        • #19
          Re: Splitting the Grinders category

          Sounds like a good idea Luca

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          • #20
            Re: Splitting the Grinders category

            I agree except for the first category. We all know that a CS will advise anyone with a so-called inadequate grinder to get a proper one, so I suggest changing the first category to Öther

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            • #21
              Re: Splitting the Grinders category

              I see what flynnaus is getting at, but think "other" is going to be too vague. "inadequate" depends on what youre What about the 1st category being "Basic plunger/drip filter", and the 2nd being "domestic espresso" to try and make the distinction clear, since were trying to draw a line between domestic grinders that can produce ground coffee for an espresso machine, and those that cant.

              Alternatively, focus on the mechanicals, since thats what people often ask about -- "domestic burr" vs "domestic other".

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              • #22
                Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                I also see where everyone is heading, but I think that you definitely reach a point where you need to put your foot down and say that grinders are just plain not up to the task. Pretending that the truly cheap stuff is OK for anything at all just perpetuates the Australian idea that espresso is king and all other brewing methods pale in comparison.

                Personally, I think that you are doing yourself a disservice if you settle for a spice chopper without trying a proper burr grinder. Overseas, some cafes pay much more than they pay for their espresso grinder for their drip and clover grinders. BBB and Liar Liar are both using the pricey Mahlkoenig Guatemalas for their Clovers and we use a three-phase Ditting for French Press at First Pour. Im particularly partial to the conical Brasilia competition grinder for cupping, as, IMHO, the taste profile is in the league of the Ditting/Mahlkoenigs, but it cuts up the beans in such a way that you get very few grounds floating to the top.

                Of course, the examples in that last paragraph are me typically going to extremes! At home, I think that a burr grinder with a good set of burrs and a decent burr grinder does very, very well for non-espresso (brewed) coffee. The only thing that I think really separates a brewed coffee grinder from an espresso grinder is how finely they can be adjusted. Im very happy to use a stepped grinder for brewed coffee ... though I know a few guys overseas who are adamant that you actually do need very fine adjustment and maybe even different burrs (modal particle distribution rather than bimodal, from memory). My home brewed coffee grinder is a sunbeam em0480 and its OK.

                Id argue that a blade grinder or a burr grinder with blunt cast burrs is inadequate for any brewing method. Decent tiny conical burr sets seem to be plentiful and cheap for manufacturers, so it wouldnt surprise me if you could do a good job with one of those breville/de longhi conical burr grinders that only have like 10 grind settings.

                Just my $0.02.

                Luca

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                • #23
                  Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                  Too true, but theres still gotta be a spot where (presumably) new people can ask questions like "XYZ down the road have got grinder ABC on special for $60 -- is it worth having?"

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                  • #24
                    Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                    For sure; thats why Id lump non-espresso and inadequate together. The categories seem to more or less line up with cash brackets, so hopefully that would act as a good signal to new members. Eg.

                    *Non-Espresso/Inadequate (<$150)

                    *Domestic Espresso ($150-$500)

                    *Prosumer/Commercial ($500 - $1250)

                    *Heavy Commercial (>$1250)

                    There will always be a few problems there; eg. the Anfim/ECA/ECM grinders cost more than $500, but are stepped and, so, Id argue that they should go in to domestic espresso with the Rocky rather than Prosumer. Guess that those sorts of problems will be unavoidable. I bet that Elektra have a fancy looking 64mm flat burr grinder that sells for more than $1250. Conversely, if you get the EM0450 on sale, its probably going to end up in the cheapest category.

                    Cheers,

                    Luca

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                      Just change from
                      (Non-Espresso/Inadequate) to (Non-Espresso/Spice)

                      Also add "Pre Loved & Projects" category

                      "Hand Crank Mills"

                      KK

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                      • #26
                        Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                        Personally, I prefer going with Burr Size/Type and leave the end users purpose up to them, e.g.

                        Small Conical - Lux, Iberital Challenge, etc
                        Flat Burr-Plates <= 50mm - Rocky, etc
                        Flat Burr-Plates <= 60mm - Mazzer Mini, etc
                        Flat Burr-Plates <= 70mm - Mazzer Super Jolly, etc
                        Flat Burr-Plates > 70mm - Mazzer Major, etc
                        Large Conical > 60mm - Mazzer Kony, Robur, etc

                        This could probably be condensed somewhat to reduce the number of categories but you get the general idea though....

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                          Mal,

                          There is a problem with that break-up - at the bottom end where the KG100, sunbeams, Iberital etc have similar sized burrs.... but there are significant differences..... the KG100 really not being suitable where the others are (but to varying degrees)...

                          There is also an issue at the top end - but not as significant.... Where do you place my DRM, the Cimbali Max, Versalab M3 and other conical/flat grinders?.... I guess in with the "normal" conicals as performance is identical......

                          Whatever way you look at it, the break-up isnt easy as what people want to know is how much they have to pay to get a "decent" and "value for money" espresso grinder..... and each persons definition of "decent" will be different

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                            Originally posted by luca link=1213770099/20#23 date=1214020225
                            There will always be a few problems there; eg. the Anfim/ECA/ECM grinders cost more than $500, but are stepped and, so, Id argue that they should go in to domestic espresso with the Rocky rather than Prosumer.
                            There are some that would argue that stepped or not is not as black and white as you seem to be making out.

                            I dont think Id like my Macap M5 lumped in with a Rocky. >

                            Theres a huge difference between the steps on my Sunbeam 0450, MDF and Macap.

                            All steps are not created equal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                              Originally posted by JavaB link=1213770099/20#26 date=1214040741
                              Mal,

                              There is a problem with that break-up - at the bottom end where the KG100, sunbeams, Iberital etc have similar sized burrs.... but there are significant differences..... the KG100 really not being suitable where the others are (but to varying degrees)...

                              There is also an issue at the top end - but not as significant.... Where do you place my DRM, the Cimbali Max, Versalab M3 and other conical/flat grinders?.... I guess in with the "normal" conicals as performance is identical......

                              Whatever way you look at it, the break-up isnt easy as what people want to know is how much they have to pay to get a "decent" and "value for money" espresso grinder..... and each persons definition of "decent" will be different
                              Maybe we should just forget about it then..... Its all starting to become way too "my toys are better than yours" for my liking.....

                              Mal.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Splitting the Grinders category

                                Originally posted by Mal link=1213770099/20#28 date=1214124686
                                Maybe we should just forget about it then..... Its all starting to become way too "my toys are better than yours" for my liking.....

                                Mal.
                                Yep I think you are correct Mal..... thats why we all suffer so much from "Upgradeitis" ;D ;D ;D ;D

                                Even I would upgrade in a flash to a Synesso or GS3..... (just a few thousand reasons why not----- unless someone has one going super cheap )

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