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Ceado E6P and Supermarket Lavazza

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  • Ceado E6P and Supermarket Lavazza

    Hi Guys - just picked up a new grinder and I'm having a few issues. I can't seem to grind fine enough. I seem to have the grinder set very fine and I'm nervous about taking it finer. I dosed 19.5g into an 18g VST basket and it still half filled a 200ml cup in about 15 seconds. The vendor says it's because they are likely stale beans and they need (or ought) to be with 6 weeks of roasting date. That's all very well but surely a grinder of this calibre should be able to handle freshly bought supermarket Lavazza beans with and expiry date of Jan 2022? Surely I don't need to buy boutique beans? Maybe that's not the problem at all though - but I have no idea why I can't dial this rotten thing in. I should add I had a Rancilio Rocky grinder and it was set very fine to "4" and I did manage to at least get a reasonable shot with it within bounds.

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    Last edited by YeastNCaffeine; 18 August 2020, 01:47 PM.

  • #2
    The numbers on the E6P dial are arbitrary. You can go finer than the zero. If you're worried about it take all the beans out and grind finer slowly until it chirps.

    With the beans they don't have to be boutique but they do have to be fresh. The only way to be sure of freshness is with a roast date, not an expiry date. Some IGA and I think now Coles supermarkets have local fresh beans. Aldi beans are the only supermarket beans with a roast date that I'm aware of (it's under the expiry date in YYMMDD format).

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    • YeastNCaffeine
      YeastNCaffeine commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks so much

  • #3
    level3ninja Because the Lavazza I bought at the supermarket was $20/kg on special I couldn't see why anyone would want to roast their own. Maybe if the supermarket coffee is really that stale and won't work in my machine and grinder that makes it more economical after all. I'm a bit disappointed though because I didn't want to spend a fortune on beans all the time even if I had some nice hardware. I worked out at about $10/kg for green beans a Behmor AB would take me about 80kg of beans or about 3 years in terms of a payback period - taking a little electricity into account and ignoring my own time and labour.

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    • barri
      barri commented
      Editing a comment
      Put simply, unless there is a roast date and you buy them within about 3 weeks of that date then any other coffee will be stale and difficult to dial in. A use by date is actually useless. The difference in taste and the quality and quantity of the crema between supermarket beans and freshly roasted is chalk and cheese. Also if you get green beans delivered the total cost including delivery (for my last order) was close to $150 for 10kg. The cost of good quality freshly roasted beans is close to $50/kg from some roasters and less for beans bought from coffeesnobs.and that doesn't include delivery, so difference in cost is about $35 to $45 /kg. If you use a kg/fortnight as an example (about 4 cups a day) then you'd be ahead in less than a year after buying a Behmor and you'll always have freshly roasted beans. I'm miles ahead of the cost of a Behmor(s) now and it only took 9 months after my first purchase. If you are happy and enjoy the taste of beans from a supermarket then ignore what I just said but if you've good quality equipment and you want cafe quality coffees at home then you should be buying freshly roasted beans

  • #4
    I'm not sure if good kit can turn ordinary beans into anything better than they are.

    It's a bit like buying really good bar gear and then only buying cheap wine and expecting wonderful flavours and aromas.

    Youre going to be missing out on a lot of really interesting and nuanced flavours with supermarket beans.

    You might be able to get some supermarket beans to pour well but I'd suggest that you're always going to be tasting muted flavours.

    Anyway that's my $00.02 and I'm not meaning to come across as being critical.

    Cheers

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    • #5
      Quality at a price point will be the biggest reason. The Aldi stuff is pretty good when fresh, only about $13/kg.
      https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/ is another great place to shop.

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      • #6
        Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
        Quality at a price point will be the biggest reason. The Aldi stuff is pretty good when fresh, only about $13/kg.
        Have reasonable success with Aldi beans (make sure you check the "expiry" date on the side of the packet which is about 14mo's past roast date). They are good if I dont have anything home roasted and ready.

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        • #7
          As level3ninja suggested, find your grinder's true zero point.

          Also, you really shouldn't expect roasted beans to last much longer than 3-4 weeks (depending on roast). I suspect the supermarket isn't the greatest place to buy freshly roasted beans. Try & find a local roaster that you're happy with. Alternatively, order roasted beans from Coffee Snobs, Andy never disappoints!

          Evan.

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          • #8
            I ran all the beans out on a coarse setting then advanced the adjustment wheel until I just heard the slightest noise. Around the letter "D" on the word Ceado it was. Then knowing that it was completely empty and with the motor off I turned the adjuster wheel gently until it wouldn't move and that was on the later "A" of CEADO so dead centre of the word. In the morning I'll try a grind setting of 0.2 perhaps but I still think that's very fine? I'll be surprised if that allows me to pull a decent shot with a good timing but we'll see. Do you think zero is therefore safe knowing where the zero point is in reality? That would be very very fine....
            Last edited by YeastNCaffeine; 18 August 2020, 11:23 PM.

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            • #9
              Yes 0 is safe. As long as you're always adjusting finer with the motor running you'll be fine. It could be the burrs need bedding in a bit, and that in combination with the beans is making it tricky. How much coffee has it had through it so far? Some burrs take 5-10kg to really bed in.

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              • #10
                I terminated the first cup at the 0.2 setting after 15 seconds when it flowed too quickly and produced about 60g perhaps (getting towards half a 200ml cup)... I adjusted it to 0.1 for the second cup and a similar result although I didn't purge the grinder of previous grinds... In the afternoon I'll try again at zero but I think it's ridiculous really. The dose was 19g in an 18g basket.

                Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                How much coffee has it had through it so far? Some burrs take 5-10kg to really bed in.
                Nothing like that - I've only had it for two days. So 10 cups only.

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                • #11
                  OK purged the grinder of beans again. Set it to pretty much zero - maybe 0.05 and I got a 55g shot with a 19g dose in 27 seconds. Close - but no cigar...

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                  • #12
                    OK I did a very stilted video - stilted because hard to do things one handed while filming....

                    Comment


                    • barri
                      barri commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Definitely stale beans with very little crema

                    • flynnaus
                      flynnaus commented
                      Editing a comment
                      On a side note, in your video you picked up the portafilter by the head rather than the handle suggesting that the portafilter isn't hot. This will lower the temperature of the shot and affect the taste. Keep the empty portafilter inserted into your machine until you are ready to dose.

                    • YeastNCaffeine
                      YeastNCaffeine commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yeah I know I wasn't drinking that shot it was just for timing and to spit the video out.... Normally the portafilter warms up with machine.

                  • #13
                    Just a suggestion but why not invest in a small bag of beans of a known recent roast date from a local roaster or cafe. That way you take that variable out of the equation. Then you can retry your current beans on or about the same grind setting.

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                    • #14
                      Originally posted by Mono View Post
                      Just a suggestion but why not invest in a small bag of beans of a known recent roast date from a local roaster or cafe. That way you take that variable out of the equation. Then you can retry your current beans on or about the same grind setting.
                      Yeah I'm going to try that next thanks - but I sort of can't believe it'll make such a difference - but I'll reserve judgement of course. The Lavazza beans are supposedly a very dark roast (9/10 intensity) - I think the darker the roast the finer you have to go?

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                      • #15
                        That pour looks very thin (no crema). My money's on old or incorrectly stored beans. Do you know the roast date? Longer than a month? Any sign of oil on the beans? In my experience, oily can mean either old beans or dark roast. That roast doesn't look very dark in the video. The Tupperware container is not ideal for storage. Use the cheap zip lock bags on bean bay which have a one way valve to allow beans to degas. You also need to push the air out of the bags regularly. Where do you store the container? You're not putting it in the fridge are you?

                        Evan.

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