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Ceado E6P and Supermarket Lavazza

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ev View Post
    That pour looks very thin (no crema). My money's on old or incorrectly stored beans. Do you know the roast date? Longer than a month? Any sign of oil on the beans? In my experience, oily can mean either old beans or dark roast. That roast doesn't look very dark in the video. The Tupperware container is not ideal for storage. Use the cheap zip lock bags on bean bay which have a one way valve to allow beans to degas. You also need to push the air out of the bags regularly. Where do you store the container? You're not putting it in the fridge are you?

    Evan.
    I store it in the cupboard below the coffee machine so no not in the fridge. Yeah there is some oil on the beans - it's a dark roast according to the bag. I took a photo of the bag in the first post if you want to see what they are.

    I'll buy some more beans and see how I go but very disappointed because I have 4 bags of them ($80).

    Comment


    • #17
      Yikes - - don't be buying 4 bags of beans unless you can use them in 2-3weeks.

      Comment


      • ev
        ev commented
        Editing a comment
        Assuming they were fresh to start with.

    • #18
      Originally posted by SanderP View Post
      Yikes - - don't be buying 4 bags of beans unless you can use them in 2-3weeks.
      I guess so - but the use by date is January 2022 (see photo). If I have made a mistake it's because Lavazza publishes that on their bag and I believed them.

      Given the wife and I go through 1kg in 2 weeks - I figured I'd get through it quickly enough considering that. That's how most people know how fresh things are and make their buying decisions I'm sure... Maybe the bags need a red warning - not really fresh - ignore the use by date lol

      Comment


      • ev
        ev commented
        Editing a comment
        Most people are happy to drink 2 year old coffee. You on the other hand (& the rest of us here), have gone to great lengths/expense to produce a 'good' cup of espresso.

        Here's one way of looking at it:
        The Coffee is the most important part of the equation here. You can have the most expensive high tech equipment but at the end of the day, you're just trying to 'cook' coffee. The most expensive oven & utensils won't make stale/expired food taste good.

    • #19
      Is the grind scale on the Ceado fixed in place? I remember reading elsewhere that it is magnetic and therefor detachable (or was that on a Ceado E37s?). If so, you could position the zero point wherever you want it.

      PS: Nice guitar videos, BTW. You can really play.

      Comment


      • YeastNCaffeine
        YeastNCaffeine commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for the kind words re: my guitar playing :-) Re: the grind scale I don't think so - although I worked the zero point out last night after making sure there no beans in it and it starting making that characteristic zero point noise at about -0.25 and with the beans gone and the machine off I can't rotate beyond -0.5. Both of those are guesses because they don't actually have scale markings beyond zero on this model.

    • #20
      Sounds like you are getting close. A quality grinder should still be able to choke a coffee machine with stale beans. As others have mentioned now you are getting close I would grab at least 500 grams / 1kg of some quality fresh beans from a local cafe/roaster (grab a bag within 2 weeks of roasting, preferably 5 days post roast). Even though you have invested $80 in Aldi beans I reckon you are better off using it for filter coffee.

      Also I think a bunch of people are forgetting "Nitrogen Wash" which is quite common packing process in supermarket beans which can extend the lifetime. Not recommending people buy supermarket beans, I always grab beans from local roasters/cafes.

      Comment


      • YeastNCaffeine
        YeastNCaffeine commented
        Editing a comment
        I am going to use it for percolated coffee at lunchtimes and use it up that way. I will get some better beans and try them but it still worries me that I can't get the grinder to grind them fine enough - I would have thought a good grinder should handle it too - I might have learnt a few things here but I have to say I'm shocked.

      • level3ninja
        level3ninja commented
        Editing a comment
        I would have thought a good grinder should handle it
        Coffee (at least the extractable parts) is largely made up of volatile compounds. The volatility of these compounds is both what makes them readily extractable and causes them to break down over time (and become harder to extract, and less vibrant on the palate). Roasting removes moisture and stone of these compounds. The darker the roast the more moisture and extractable parts have been removed already. I have a theory that as the coffee ages and these compounds break down, and moisture is removed, that the solubles contained in the cellulose ends up looking less like the Michelin man and more like a spider web (as in its not bulging out of the cellulose but shrunk back). This change in volume makes it easier for the water to get around the coffee. Once it has shrunk enough they're won't be much you can do to slow the water down enough for a normal shot. Grinding finer increases the surface area available to the water for a given volume of bean, but there comes a point where even talcom powder fineness won't be enough surface area. This lack of resistance also means low pressure, which reduces extraction further.

    • #21
      >>but it still worries me that I can't get the grinder to grind them fine enough

      I have to agree that your grinder should be able to choke your machine even with very old beans. When you said you last tried very close to zero, was this zero on the scale or zero, as in burrs were almost touching? As other have mentioned the zero on the scale is fairly arbitrary. If your burrs are almost touching and you still can't choke the machine then it's possible the pressure on your machine is set too high. (But I have to ask - why buy a $1500 grinder though, and use it with cheap beans?)

      Comment


      • #22
        Originally posted by saeco_user View Post
        >>but it still worries me that I can't get the grinder to grind them fine enough

        I have to agree that your grinder should be able to choke your machine even with very old beans. When you said you last tried very close to zero, was this zero on the scale or zero, as in burrs were almost touching? As other have mentioned the zero on the scale is fairly arbitrary. If your burrs are almost touching and you still can't choke the machine then it's possible the pressure on your machine is set too high. (But I have to ask - why buy a $1500 grinder though, and use it with cheap beans?)
        The zero point is about 0.25 of the scale further counterclockwise - so it would be approximately negative 0.25 (except that's approximate because the scale runs out and there's just a word "Ceado" in that region of the scale). I'm at zero on the physical dial at the moment though. I checked where the zero point was last night - no I'm not quite there but surely I have to leave a tiny gap for safety like I am now.

        Comment


        • #23
          Originally posted by saeco_user View Post
          >>but it still worries me that I can't get the grinder to grind them fine enough

          (But I have to ask - why buy a $1500 grinder though, and use it with cheap beans?)
          Why... because by buying a machine and nice grinder but saving on the coffee cost I recoup the investment quicker through cheaper coffees. As for Lavazza being cheap - I'm not sure but I think it's that's cheap really - normally $35/kg and I got it on special at $20/kg. There are Cafe's that use Lavazza. I'm kind of annoyed that people wondering why I use old beans. I would bet that they didn't sit on the shelf at woolworths for long at all and they have enormous turnover at a supermarket. The use by is Jan 2022 - now I know people say that's terrible but I didn't know any better and they shouldn't be allowed to print it if it's not true. When I rang Lavazza they told me they have a special process and assured me that they are fresh and any beans they could replace them with would have about the same expiry. I understand what people are saying here about roast dates but not everyone knows any better and indeed Lavazza are sticking to their story. So should I report Lavazza to Fair Trading for telling pork pies? Anyway is expensive a guarantee of quality when it comes to beans when they are on special - who knows - you are always guessing right...

          All I know is my expensive h/w won't work with the bloody beans I bought (like the peasant I am at the supermarket) and I have cleared the grinder of beans and am waiting on some "boutiquey" cork sniffing beans to make the bloody POS work. What a joke. lol
          Last edited by YeastNCaffeine; 19 August 2020, 05:31 PM.

          Comment


          • saeco_user
            saeco_user commented
            Editing a comment
            Wasn't wondering about old beans - just cheap beans. Lavazza is like having supermarket white bread when you could be eating Dench Sourdough.

          • YeastNCaffeine
            YeastNCaffeine commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah I get that ;-)

        • #24
          OK I tried the grinder with beans that had a grind date placing them at 1 week old...
          Went through the following settings on the dial:

          0.5 - ran through way too fast and gushed out…
          0.35 - shot was 59 grams from a 19g dose
          0.25 - shot was 38 grams from a 19g dose

          So assuming future shots behave the same way I have dialled it in at 0.25. The zero point of the grinder (where it just barely began to sing) is at about the “D” on the word CEADO and the “A” is the limit of where it will turn gently with no beans once the zero point was found and the motor switched off.

          I'll do a few more shots over the next few days and see if it stays consistent. So the new beans allowed me to reach do a shot but I'm not sure if the how fine it's set should surprise me or if that's normal.



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          • saeco_user
            saeco_user commented
            Editing a comment
            Certainly sounds like it is in the right ballpark. How long did the shots take? I have a completely different 59mm flat burr grinder and, when in the espresso range, is very close to burrs touching. In fact, if I put pressure on the hopper (connected to the top burr) during grinding, I sometimes here the burrs touch. Maybe your scale could be better positioned. I don't have one, just continuous markings.

          • YeastNCaffeine
            YeastNCaffeine commented
            Editing a comment
            All of them were 27 seconds saeco_user. I should have mentioned that sorry. I was holding the dose and time constant and measuring the weight of the coffee output as the variable.

        • #25
          Just out of curiosity - is there a fixed reference point on the grinder's body against which you measure the grind scale? I can't see one in that photo ^

          Edit: This video on coffee freshness was posted in a different thread by another member. Very interesting. Mentions the nitrogen flush technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUbCGxQsHs
          Last edited by splashalot; 20 August 2020, 01:44 PM.

          Comment


          • #26
            Originally posted by splashalot View Post
            Just out of curiosity - is there a fixed reference point on the grinder's body against which you measure the grind scale? I can't see one in that photo ^

            Edit: This video on coffee freshness was posted in a different thread by another member. Very interesting. Mentions the nitrogen flush technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUbCGxQsHs
            If you look in the shadows there's an arrow in relief on the black plastic above the letter "a" in Ceado pointing at the scale. It's not exactly the easiest dial to read precisely I guess they bank on people mostly doing it by feel.

            Comment


            • #27
              There's a thread on Home Barista for tips on the E6P (link provided below, but unsure if it will be removed). Not sure if you have seen it, or if it contains any info which may help you, but just thought I'd mention it on the off chance it helps.

              https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...ps-t47247.html

              Comment


              • Andy
                Andy commented
                Editing a comment
                Links to commercial sites get removed (else we end-up looking like facebook and attract every scammer and spammer on the planet)

                Links to good content are fine but if you think the content will disappear, then posting the content here makes this site more readable in the future.

                (YES I'm talking to you photobucket, thanks for making a mess of forums all over the planet!)

            • #28
              Originally posted by splashalot View Post

              Edit: This video on coffee freshness was posted in a different thread by another member. Very interesting. Mentions the nitrogen flush technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUbCGxQsHs
              That was an interesting video.

              Originally posted by splashalot View Post
              There's a thread on Home Barista for tips on the E6P (link provided below, but unsure if it will be removed). Not sure if you have seen it, or if it contains any info which may help you, but just thought I'd mention it on the off chance it helps.

              https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...ps-t47247.html
              Thanks - yeah I saw that at some point but both of the scale layouts are actually different to mine in that article - so it still left me wondering. Can you see I have a region on mine that has no scale at all! and in fact I found the true zero point of mine in that region.

              One thing I maybe haven't mentioned is I'm using a VST basket... I suspect they might have a greater flow but not sure how much that explains things,

              Comment


              • flynnaus
                flynnaus commented
                Editing a comment
                The VST baskets require a finer grind. If your stock standard ECM basket doesn’t have any issues, at least you know the source of the problem.
                There's a new E6P v2 manual here but not sure it will be of much help.
                https://wiki.wholelattelove.com/Cead...ms_and_manuals

              • YeastNCaffeine
                YeastNCaffeine commented
                Editing a comment
                flynnaus that particular manual purports to be for my model but it doesn't have the same scale or digital display and menus unfortunately - so I'm surprised they call my grinder a v2 - it's should probably be a v3. It's the same on the Ceado.it site too btw.

              • flynnaus
                flynnaus commented
                Editing a comment
                Fair enough, it don't think the manual is going to solve your current issues anyway.
                Give your ECM basket a try.

            • #29
              Probably worth mentioning that you're never really dialled in.

              Things move around constantly.

              The good thing is you look like you're now in the espresso zone so the changes aren't going to be significant from day to day or bean to bean - but there will be tweaks required.

              ​​​​​​​Cheers

              Comment


              • #30
                I was going to post something similar to SanderP but don't have to because he did.
                • If your grinder grinds too fine than it's all good (and you have another inch rotation on yours).
                • Who cares what number it is? You just adjust slightly between beans.
                People often get hung-up on the "grinder number" which varies between build dates and grinders and wear and temperature and the phase of the moon if you believe the interwebs...

                When your grinder can't grind fine enough, regardless of the indicated number, then you need to do something.

                Comment

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