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  • Another BCG820 replacement/upgrade recommendation

    I too am looking to replace my BCG820 grinder. Its my 2nd one (BCG800 was first). It is doing to do the clog, grind too fine, choke the Silvia thing for the last 6 to 9 months. I clean it, then it does it again in a week/month. I roast my own beans every 2 weeks or so. I read that someone has narrowed the problem down to bearings?

    My budget is around $500 to $800. Main requirements are quietness and speed, 10+ year life, and quality of grind. But at that price range I think quality is (should be) a given. I don't mind a slow grinder if it is quiet.

    I've looked at the rocky, Compak K3 touch advanced. Leaning toward the K3, but after reading a few posts here I'm more confused.

    Eureka Mignon / Niche Zero /Baratza Sette / second hand MM - far out too many choices.

    I'm also confused about the burr, I remember a few years ago a 'conical burr grinder' is the ducks nuts, but now they are all going back to flat burrs? My old Gaggia grinder had flat burrs and it was a POS.

    Someone help put me out of my misery?

    edit: usually pull 2-3 long blacks a day, plus 1-2 flat whites. then the occasional family event where I'm pumping them out.

  • #2
    Interesting thread. I am following.

    Comment


    • #3
      That kind of budget you can get a really decent second hand grinder.

      Conical vs Flat in terms of taste or subjective 'measurements' is a debate as old as time! The real difference is speed and for a home setting you don't have to worry too much about an extra 10 seconds of grinding beans per shot. In a Cafe pumping out 100+ coffees an hours 10 seconds is a lot.

      I have personally had a range including the rocky, Mazzer Super Jolly and Mazzer Robur all bought within (or below your range).
      If I found a decent Super Jolly I would probably go back to it. The Robur is too high retention for me, the speed is not a factor and it is quite loud.
      The Rocky has a stepped adjustment which isn't quite small enough for fine adjustments.

      Having no experience with the K3 - they look good and are stepless which is big plus over the Rocky.

      One thing on second hand grinders - the burrs are the expensive bit to replace a couple hundred bucks or more usually, so a good chunk of the replacement cost. So that should always be the number 1 thing you check when buying second hand. Avoid a thrashed out ex cafe grinder and look for home use only as they will have a significantly longer life.

      My opinion would be look for a second hand with decent burrs and low ish retention. You wont need to replace it for decades!

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the Mazzers are pretty loud. Not sure I want to source a second hand one. But I'm now swaying toward the Eureka Silenzio. Seems to tick a lot of boxes. The Silenzio version looks to be about 4db quieter than the others in the minion range. Thinking about the sound energy doubles/halves every 3db its not too bad.

        Funny, https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...ades-are-great is a great review from BLW, who's gone from a Breville to a Silenzio. Looks like there's some good and bad points too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
          That kind of budget you can get a really decent second hand grinder.

          Conical vs Flat in terms of taste or subjective 'measurements' is a debate as old as time! The real difference is speed and for a home setting you don't have to worry too much about an extra 10 seconds of grinding beans per shot. In a Cafe pumping out 100+ coffees an hours 10 seconds is a lot.

          I have personally had a range including the rocky, Mazzer Super Jolly and Mazzer Robur all bought within (or below your range).
          If I found a decent Super Jolly I would probably go back to it. The Robur is too high retention for me, the speed is not a factor and it is quite loud.
          The Rocky has a stepped adjustment which isn't quite small enough for fine adjustments.

          Having no experience with the K3 - they look good and are stepless which is big plus over the Rocky.

          One thing on second hand grinders - the burrs are the expensive bit to replace a couple hundred bucks or more usually, so a good chunk of the replacement cost. So that should always be the number 1 thing you check when buying second hand. Avoid a thrashed out ex cafe grinder and look for home use only as they will have a significantly longer life.

          My opinion would be look for a second hand with decent burrs and low ish retention. You wont need to replace it for decades!

          What he said....

          I have Compak K3 (Push maybe?) and it's been rock solid. Picked up 2nd hand, 5-ish years ago and it was <1yo <$500 (may have been less - don't really remember). Grinders are rarely quiet... I'll suffer upgraditis before I NEED to replace it.... [sigh]

          MM's are pretty good by all accounts. Good luck!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Coffee_Dude View Post


            What he said....

            I have Compak K3 (Push maybe?) and it's been rock solid. Picked up 2nd hand, 5-ish years ago and it was <1yo <$500 (may have been less - don't really remember). Grinders are rarely quiet... I'll suffer upgraditis before I NEED to replace it.... [sigh]

            MM's are pretty good by all accounts. Good luck!
            I do love MMs (actually all kinds of M&Ms ) The Compak range look really bulletproof and was one of the first grinders I was contemplating. Similar to my Sylvia I want something that runs forever with little maintenance. But I've also noticed it is impossible for people to talk in the kitchen while I'm grinding the BSG. The BSG is an awesome grinder for the price, and not particularly loud. I read a review where a guy upgraded from BSG to the Eureka Specialita and noticed how it was quieter than the BSG.

            I think I'm sold on the Eureka, now just to decide if between the Silenzio and the Specialita.......... Silenzio - a little quieter, but longer grind time. Specialita - a little louder, faster grind, few snazzy features, more $$$...


            Comment


            • #7
              Just pulled the trigger on the Silenzio. Had to pull the SG apart this morning and give it a super clean to stop it choking the Sylvia.

              Got it from Alternative Brewing. Almost chose to pay more to stick it to the stupid chat thing that pops up EVERY SINGLE PAGE I GO TO!

              Comment


              • #8
                Well it arrived. I've pulled about 5 shots out of it getting it dialed in. So far I love it. It is much quieter and faster than the BSG. I'll try to get some recordings to actually measure the db output of the BSG820 vs the Silenzio from the same distance. Also the tone is lower too, which helps it feel even quieter. I'll try to do some frequency analysis. It might all come down to tone/frequency of the noise output.

                The grind is insanely more consistent than the BSG. No big chunks of grind coming out, and its twice as fast as the BSG.

                I'm a little disappointed in BLW's review. Well not disappointed, but it nearly turned me off the Silenzio. I don't think he meant it that way - but thats how I ended up after his review. It does lack some of the snazzy digital features, timers, etc. The Silenzio seems to hold the Silvia's group handle fine. It does seem to grind into the back of the basket, so I've not used the timer much yet.

                I'm really glad I got it. It feels like a big upgrade, even though it lacks some of the BSG features.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok peeps. Not sure if anyone is even interested. But I was, so I thought I'd post...

                  Breville BSG 820 - 73db
                  Eureka Miniongn Silenzio - 65 db

                  Roughly a difference of 8db. Which is around 3 x quieter. But humans don't hear in db terms, I think we are tuned to hear certain frequencies more than others. I remember seeing a curve graph on how we perceive frequencies.

                  So here's the frequency analysis of the two grinders:

                  file: BSG-beans.png - BSG820. You can see overall higher db's, and larger peaks to -33db. Highest peak is 313Hz at -33db.
                  file: Silenzio-beans.png - Silenzio. Peaks at 102Hz -26db, 184Hz -33db. But you notice a huge chunk of frequency chopped out. Then drops from around 2000Hz to about 4000Hz where the chart ends.

                  I'm not sure why they both stop around 4kHz. Maybe the phone cuts/filters above this. I hope I didn't stuff something up. Humans are tuned to be more sensitive between 1kHz to 5kHz - as that's where our voice is. You notice the BSG is solid sound around -45db in that range with 4 to 5 peaks at -39db, where the silenzio is a triangle shape from 1kHz peaks at -42db then drops back to -57db.


                  My method was: Record video with audio on wife's Samsung S10e while running DB measuring app on my phone.
                  My phone was aprox 30cm from both grinders. 2nd phone in my hands aprox 50-60cm from both grinders.
                  Use VLC to extract audio track from 2nd phone. Import audio into audacity. Run "Plot spectrum" on highlighted section of audio when grinding.

                  This link explains/shows why two frequencies at different levels can sound the same: https://www.tonmeister.ca/main/textb...#x24-3100005.4

                  I tried to upload a sound file and video, but I wasn't allowed. How to share the video?


                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • demod
                    demod commented
                    Editing a comment
                    mthomas87 8db and the thought of 6x louder seems huge, which is why I went off on my tangent on looking up some human sound theory. Because it doesn't feel 6 x quieter. Its definitely much quieter. I did think of redoing the measurement without it resting on the bench after noticing and feeling the hum coming from the bench. But I figured it was the same for both grinders, and I'd emptied the BSG and put it under the stairs . I might do the silenzio again in the morning, but the frequency stuff was taken from the other phone in my hand.

                  • peteru
                    peteru commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Sound pressure level and perceived loudness are not the same. To double the pressure level, you need an increase of 3dB. Human hearing is complicated, but the rule of thumb is that to perceive something as twice as loud, you need to increase the pressure level by 10dB.

                    Therefore 8dB difference is not as much as twice as loud, but will certainly be very noticeable.

                  • demod
                    demod commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ahh thanks for that 10db nugget of info. That really does make more sense to my preception of the difference.

                    I just did Silenzio db measurement with the phone in my hand in the same spot and grinder in the same spot and it was pretty much the same. Hovered around the 64 , 65 db mark.

                • #10
                  Originally posted by demod View Post
                  How to share the video?
                  Post it on YouTube or a similar hosting site and share the link here.


                  Java "Nice data!" phile
                  Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Alrighty, here's a little video clip.

                    https://imgur.com/a/JDbKEvh



                    Now its the Sylvia that's too loud. I think I'm starting to get silence-itis (a rare form of upgradeitis). I wonder if I can silence that pump down a bit

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Hi demod ,

                      It's been a few more weeks since you got your Eureka. How do you feel about it these days? How is your workflow with it and are there any positive or negative aspects worth mentioning?

                      I have a Sunbeam EM0480 and a Breville BCG820 and while they both still work, I'm looking for an upgrade. I only make espresso, typically one or two double shots every day. Low(ish) retention would be good. I'm open to using a grinder either in single dose mode or with a timer. The Eureka Mignon-E or Silenzio both look like very good options. While I do like quiet, noise is not the highest priority for me - quality of espresso grind and mess / workflow factors are the important things for me.

                      I would be interested in hearing from Eureka Mignon owners about their experiences.

                      Comment


                      • jafa1970
                        jafa1970 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Considered a decent hand grinder?

                      • peteru
                        peteru commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Not initially, but a hand grinder has been suggested to me. I went and did a bit of research on hand grinders and I don't think it's the right choice for me, especially given how expensive the good ones are.

                        Oh, and I can't find any left handed models around! ;-)

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by peteru View Post
                      Hi demod ,

                      It's been a few more weeks since you got your Eureka. How do you feel about it these days? How is your workflow with it and are there any positive or negative aspects worth mentioning?
                      I'm still loving the purchase. No regrets at all. I've probably put around 1.5 kg of beans through it. 3 to 4 double shots on a normal day.

                      Positives: Grind consistency, zero clumping, less mess (I thought it'd be worse than the Breville), grind speed. - oh and the sound... OMG the sound! so good.

                      Negatives: PF holder (it tends to slowly twist to the right if you leave it). It was also super sharp when I got it, needed to go over it with some wet'n'dry sandpaper.

                      Annoyances: the timer adjustment is a bit primitive, but I haven't touched it since the first day I had it. grind trigger - I wish it would pause/stop the grind (like the bsg), but in the few times I needed to stop it I've just flicked the switch off on the side.

                      Only change to workflow is that I keep hold of the portafilter so that it grinds into the middle of the basket. Might be a bit harsh putting the PF holder in the negative, as it grinds in about half the time of the BSG and its less annoying so I don't mind. But for the price of the thing I'd prefer something a little more sturdy.

                      If some of the timer features are appealing and you are not too concerned with the noise, I'd say the Eureka Specialita might be a good fit.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Thanks for those insights. It's often the little things that can make a big difference to long term satisfaction.

                        The Sunbeam is terrible for mess, whereas the Breville is good, except for the clumps towards the end of the grind that roll off the PF. It's good to hear that the Eurekas are not messy.

                        I noticed in some of the demo videos I watched that the PF holder could use more grip and it looked like it was a cheap, punched out piece of metal. I wonder if a bit of heat shrink tubing or silicon hose applied to it would fix the PF drifting and take care of the sharp edges too.

                        I'm very used to push-to-pause on the Breville to redistribute mid-grind. Then again, if I use a funnel on the PF or an intermediate container, I would not need to do that - just let the timer run for the whole duration and then shake, distribute and tamp. Stepping up to the Specialita might make a difference in terms of the workflow, but it also means bigger burrs and a substantial increase in the price.

                        I like the small form factor of the Eureka Mignon series. Am I correct in assuming that the bench footprint is no bigger than the Breville?

                        I've had a bit of a look at the Baratza Sette 270Wi. The integrated scales seem like a great idea, but it seems like the grinder mechanics / longevity is not there, so I've got cold feet.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by peteru View Post
                          Thanks for those insights. It's often the little things that can make a big difference to long term satisfaction.

                          The Sunbeam is terrible for mess, whereas the Breville is good, except for the clumps towards the end of the grind that roll off the PF. It's good to hear that the Eurekas are not messy.
                          The uniformity and lack of static is amazing. (for me coming from the BSG at least). I don't have to stop the grind at all, and it makes a neat little mountain of coffee, then tamp, and away you go. So having to pause the grind is not really an issue. I'll try to remember to do a little video for you.

                          Originally posted by peteru View Post
                          I noticed in some of the demo videos I watched that the PF holder could use more grip and it looked like it was a cheap, punched out piece of metal. I wonder if a bit of heat shrink tubing or silicon hose applied to it would fix the PF drifting and take care of the sharp edges too.
                          I was thinking about the heat shrink, but not convinced it'll help much. I have some tubing, so I might give that a try. Tubing seems like it might give it a better grip. I'm also thinking about 3d printing something to hold the PF onto the 'fork'. I'll try the tube first though - a much better idea.

                          Originally posted by peteru View Post
                          I like the small form factor of the Eureka Mignon series. Am I correct in assuming that the bench footprint is no bigger than the Breville?

                          I've had a bit of a look at the Baratza Sette 270Wi. The integrated scales seem like a great idea, but it seems like the grinder mechanics / longevity is not there, so I've got cold feet.
                          The BCG is a little smaller and has a slightly smaller footprint than the BSG. Here's a family pic.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          I should have started a new thread as this has turned into bit of a Silenzio review / BCG comparison. I wonder if there a way to change the title?

                          I added some pics without the BCG too.

                          ( I just realised I've been swapping between BSG and BCG like a mad man - apologies!)
                          Attached Files

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