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HG-1 TiN Coated Burrs flaking already

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  • HG-1 TiN Coated Burrs flaking already

    A good friend bought an HG-1 in Nov 2020 and is VERY annoyed that the Titanium Nitride coating on the burrs has basically removed itself while grinding through just 8kg of beans. Yeah, about 1kg a month.

    Attempts to contact WW have been fruitless so he just ended up ordering genuine Mazzer 83mm burrs at considerable cost. While TiN is meant to be "food safe" it's also meant to be ultra-hard and not just fall off the burrs in a device that is meant to "last a lifetime".

    Mazzer support said they do not recommend such coatings, we can see why.

    1. Have other HG-1 owners here experienced the similar amounts of TiN flaking off?
    2. If so what sort of support did you receive from WW?


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  • #2
    Originally posted by MOQ888 View Post
    While TiN is meant to be "food safe" it's also meant to be ultra-hard and not just fall off the burrs in a device that is meant to "last a lifetime".
    The hardness of TiN is its Achilles' heel. Since it is much harder than the steel substrate a thick layer will stay straight while the substrate deforms when heavily loaded and the two will part ways, resulting in flaking just like that in the pic above.

    Comment


    • #3
      thats insane, hopefully didnt get to drink the flakes!

      Comment


      • #4
        Is this common? I've got a Weber key on order that has the same TiN coated burrs and this is a pretty big concern for me, I really wouldn't want to have to buy new burrs shortly after forking over a decent amount of money for this grinder.

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        • amberale
          amberale commented
          Editing a comment
          I’ve seen a lot of people loving their old HG-1s but never seen this.
          Maybe stones in the beans?

      • #5
        What/how did your friend raise this with Weber? They have a decent customer support reputation (and a good rep in general for product quality), I would have thought they’d respond with some sort of warranty replacement especially if your friend only bought it 7/8 mths ago.

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        • #6
          Wow ... and ugh. Suggest your friend tries posting to WW Facebook group. Tends to get attention. I had Titanium burrs in an ECM 64mm flat burrs. Seemed OK. Wonder if it's just conicals that don't handle it so well? Probably put 8kg max through it before I sold it, great grinder though.

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          • #7
            That's really concerning... I also pre-ordered the Key, which has 2 year warranty. That said, I don't want to be drinking flakes of titanium. Just checked the discussion forum on the Indiegogo and someone has already referenced this thread. This should hopefully get them to respond back to you quickly.

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            • #8
              Originally posted by mocchi View Post
              thats insane, hopefully didnt get to drink the flakes!
              The flakes are totally inert. TiN is used on surgical inserts like hip replacements.

              Mind you that's what we all said about perfluorinated alkanes before we were all proved wrong...
              Last edited by Lyrebird; 18 July 2021, 11:47 PM.

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              • #9
                OP, what kind of coffee did your "good friend" typically grind? Anything unusually hard?

                Comment


                • amberale
                  amberale commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Was it modified to add a motor?

              • #10
                Thank you CS community for all your replies. I can't see how to multiquote but here goes

                mocchi Lyrebird This was one of the main reasons for questioning the flaking, the prospect of ultra-fine TiN particles being ingested and maybe embedded into the GI tract somewhere. My friend is a UK medical specialist and my background is biological science so we think we have legitimate concerns. History is full of things that have been called revolutionary but later determined to be hazardous/cancerous/fatal.

                Cammo23 Hard to say but I have seen other photos around the place where the TiN appears to have been worn off where the beans touch.

                amberale jbviau Boutique beans from a very highly regarded boutique UK roaster, he's been buying from them for years and had previously used a Comandante hand mill with these beans. He'd have noticed if random stones were a consistent feature as they'd have jammed the burrs, so we think this is unlikely to be the cause of the flaking. Plus the photos show basically all the TiN flaked off at the bean contact areas. When I visited my roaster last month I was shocked at the amount of debris in green beans ... when he empties his destoner stuff like nails and bolts are among the stones and other crap that it removes.

                jasiano tompoland He's tried the website contact form on many occasions with zero acknowledgment and they don't list an email address. He's rarely uses FB so I'll suggest he has a huge whinge there, maybe that'll get a response.

                echeung Pure Titanium is safe. TiN is meant to be food safe, but as elaborated above we have concerns about ingesting microscopic particles. If you've paid your deposit I'd be asking for UNCOATED burrs.


                Like many HG-1 owners, he LOVES the drinks he's able to get out of it, the speed at which it grinds, and that it doesn't wake his wife when he makes his pre-dawn brew. He's a finicky guy (aren't we all) so regularly cleaning the burrs is part of his care regimen and he noticed about 3 months ago that there was an unusual patina on the inner burr visible on the feeder blades in 2nd photo. His earlier photo wasn't clear enough and we put that down to him sprinkling the beans with drops of water to eliminate the static causing grinds to fly everywhere. He's tried all the anti-static tricks including the supplied accessory, this is the one that works for him.

                I did find it hard to believe that a few slightly damp beans could leave a hard residue on the burrs. He couldn't scrub it off with a medium toothbrush & detergent either. Now we think he was seeing the early stages of the TiN flaking off.

                WW should make TiN coated burrs optional so owners can make the choice.

                Frankly I don't know why a hand grinder needs an 83mm burr set when the 71mm would work just as well and be heaps cheaper to replace. It smacks of "mine's bigger than yours ... nah nah nah nah nah". Burrs need to be replaced at some point so why force owners into buying a new burr set that's about 1/3 the cost of the f**king grinder? If he was local I'd trying to work out how to make an adaptor for the 71mm burrs.

                Comment


                • #11
                  It sounds like he has legitimate concerns.
                  I become very frustrated with companies that hide behind communications walls.

                  Comment


                  • Paolo
                    Paolo commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Me too...big time!

                • #12
                  Originally posted by amberale View Post
                  It sounds like he has legitimate concerns.
                  I become very frustrated with companies that hide behind communications walls.
                  Agree. There could be legitimate reasons why WW doesn't respond. One could be the design & manufacture of the HG-2 is taking up all his time. Another could be that the website form submission doesn't actually work and he won't know this because he doesn't get any emails from it. Or, maybe some other reason ... ??

                  Suffice it to say having tossed down a fair chunk for an early Xmas pressie last year (to the horror of his wife when he set it up!) and now having to throw down a bunch more for genuine burrs because WW doesn't respond shouldn't sit right with anyone.

                  To answer your earlier question, no motor mod. He grinds 30g for his morning brew which takes just 20s handle turning. This is a godsend compared to the 3+ minutes of tedium with the Comandante so he definitely has no interest in powering it.


                  I've emailed him with the suggestion to post something on FB. I had a look at IndieGoGo, TY to echeung for posting the link there.

                  Quoting from the WW website on the HG-2 (the HG-1 page says the same)

                  ******
                  The HG-2 is still built around the massive 83mm conical burr set. We source our burrs exclusively from Mazzer, but apply our own unique secondary processes to partially season and make them suitable for hand-grinding, and then seal in the edge with a life-prolonging and completely food safe TiN coating. This will last both you and your children's family a lifetime of world-class coffee grinding.
                  ******

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                  • #13
                    ******
                    The HG-2 is still built around the massive 83mm conical burr set. We source our burrs exclusively from Mazzer, but apply our own unique secondary processes to partially season and make them suitable for hand-grinding, and then seal in the edge with a life-prolonging and completely food safe TiN coating. This will last both you and your children's family a lifetime of world-class coffee grinding.
                    ******
                    The word "recall" comes to mind.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Watching the IndieGoGo comments about TiN ... curious

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                      • #15
                        My only experience with either TiN or DLC (diamond like carbon, coating. different but similar co-efficient of drag) is used on motorcycle suspension components and is applied for reduction of stiction, and durability.

                        This below would need to be verified by further independent opinions to be considered as reliably factual....
                        ....
                        TiN will oxidize at 800 °C in a normal atmosphere. TiN has a brown color, and appears gold when applied as a coating. It is chemically stable at 20 °C, according to laboratory tests, but can be slowly attacked by concentrated acid solutions with rising temperatures.[5] Depending on the substrate material and surface finish, TiN will have a coefficient of friction ranging from 0.4 to 0.9 against another TiN surface (non-lubricated).
                        ....
                        And as different origins of roasted coffee beans can contain many acidic compounds this may be the best explanation for your friends experience.
                        Good luck with the approaches to WW.

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                        • Lyrebird
                          Lyrebird commented
                          Editing a comment
                          No it isn't. The damage seen is manifestly not chemical damage and the acids in coffee are of the wrong type, at the wrong concentration and at the wrong temperature to cause any such damage.
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