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Battle of the Giants

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  • Battle of the Giants

    So the Weber EG1 found its way on my bench sitting nicely besides the P100
    I am going to be so interested in comparing these 2 grinders. Still to come is also the Weber key, but have a feeling im not even going to take it out of the box and put it straight up for sale once it arrives. The EG1 was the one i always wanted and now that i have it, not sure i care for the key any longer.

    The EG1 will most likely become my filter grinder as i have the DB-2 ultra low fines burrs for it also, but first i want to do some back to back espresso grind comparisons

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  • #2
    Very nice set up John. what depth of roast being do you prefer for your espresso?

    Comment


    • JohnA
      JohnA commented
      Editing a comment
      CleanFinish i dont roast my own, and go by the roasters profile. My usual go to is seven seeds and market lane, and i also occasionally get from paradox, padre, zest and a couple others just to try something different

    • CleanFinish
      CleanFinish commented
      Editing a comment
      JohnA - for your seven seeds and market lane, do u get their filter roast for espresso or their espresso for espresso?

    • JohnA
      JohnA commented
      Editing a comment
      CleanFinish, i have gotten both, and have tried the filter roast as espresso but not the other way around

  • #3
    John A, I'll give you a medium roast. Whatever were you thinking when you got the psychedelic portafilter handles. On a more genuine note, I love the presence of the EG 1, looks great on your bench.

    Comment


    • JohnA
      JohnA commented
      Editing a comment
      hahaha, i love that handle end, but i do a regular change around between black-gold, black-bronze, black-black with gold ring...its why i love the pesado modular handles. Change the mood as it suits

  • #4
    As a P100 owner I’m looking forward to seeing the results and if the conclusion is have to spend another 4k

    Comment


    • #5
      Well today i didnt have a huge amount of time to play and both grinders are still very new to me.
      I need, OK, i WANT to do a lot more testing and tasting

      I didnt do it blind today apart from the milk based drinks which i gave to the wife, she didnt know which was which.

      1st up, speed, the EG1 is so slow compared to the P100
      The p100 is set at speed 3 which according to logoms manual is roughly 580rpm, so i set the EG1 to 600.
      The EG1 when grinding however hunts around on the rpm, doesnt stay a constant 600, but its not a huge variance. I think depending on the load of the beans it tries to compensate.

      1st coffee i made was a milk based late.

      I gave them both to the wife to drink, and to her credit she picked the lagom instantly. Her exact words were, this is my normal late. She then went on to say she wasnt sure which she preferred of the 2, but she did say the EG1 had more flavour profile coming through.
      I took a sip of both and agreed with her

      When i got home later in the afternoon, i made an espresso using my usual 1:2 recipe using a 20g vst basket and dosing exactly 20g in

      Knowing which was which, i was hopeful bias didnt come into play, but to be perfectly honest, i found it very hard to tell them apart, and if i didnt know which grinder was used for each one, id never tell them apart.
      Of course i want to also play around with grind settings a little more as the lagom poured slightly quicker then the eg1, so may need to fine up the grind a tad

      I also want to compare them at different speed settings

      To me the EG-1 is a thing of beauty, precision build and just lovely to use. The P100 is a much quicker workflow, also lovely and easy to use

      JT1, at this early stage id say there is no clear winner and i doubt there will be.

      Once ive lived with them both for a few more weeks, i'll give a more detailed report, and i also want to try the EG-1 with the DB-2 low fines burr set for V60

      Comment


      • #6
        I'd expect them to each be tastiest at slightly different shot times and ratios given their different burr geometries

        Comment


        • JohnA
          JohnA commented
          Editing a comment
          agree, this is why i need to play test and TASTE sooo much more...
          Its going to suck i tell you

      • #7
        Living with them both for a little longer now i must say, the Lagom P100 punches well above its weight.

        After many many many more tastings, both black and milk based my personal findings are as follows.

        EG1 for espresso
        P100 for milk based, but it was so close id happily use either
        P100 for pour over. but i havent played with it as much, as i just head straight to the P100 for that task.

        I have the low fines ultra burrs for the EG1 and am sure it will better the P100 in pour over with them in there, but not sure i want to deal with them for espresso. I may install them one day just to test it out though as see how much better if any they really are

        The other 2 areas the P100 wins out is speed and ease of changing grind setting, especially when going from espresso to filter. Its a hand hand job and very quick, where as with the EG1 its a 2 hand job and a little clumsy, this is why i havent tested it as much. I'll have to set aside some time and leave it at the filter setting and fine tune to make it a fair test

        EG1 wins hands down on ease of cleaning

        At the end of the day, you wouldnt be disappointed in either. Those with a P100 looking to see if the extra $3k for an EG1 is worth while, at this early stage id have to honestly say no. It is a thing of beauty, easy to use, i havent had any issue with mess and i grind straight into my portafilter with funnel attached. The sliding portafilter holders with the springs are an absolutely brilliant design. Its these small things that make you realise where your money is going towards with this grinder.

        Now of course none of this was done in any sort of blind testing, and its only my opinion on what works for me and to my taste buds.


        I also have the Key coming sometime late september or early october, (so over it) but not sure im even going to bother with it to be honest. I cant see it offering me anything either of these cant at the moment

        I truly do love using both, and the way it is at the moment is working a treat.
        Weber for wifes morning espresso and P100 for my morning pourover
        then in the afternoon if we both want milk based drinks, ill do one on each just to keep testing and playing. This is where all the fun is







        Comment


        • tompoland
          tompoland commented
          Editing a comment
          Super interesting thanks John.

      • #8
        I am so torn between these 2 grinders. Its getting to a point now where i am just switching it up to make use of both of them..1 week i'll use the P100 exclusively for pourovers and the EG1 for espresso then switch them around the following week

        I have the luxury to be able to keep them both, but in the back of my mind, i am thinking i could live with either one of these very happily, so i need to try justify keeping them both.

        So i have figured i am going to swap out the burrs on the EG1 next week and put in the DB-2 burr set and use it purely for pourovers and see if it kicks the P100 out of the park.

        1st world problems

        Comment


        • tompoland
          tompoland commented
          Editing a comment
          Nice to have them both though. Swapping burrs in and out is a pain. Core burrs in EG-1 for any medium to dark espresso, P100 for light roast espresso and pour over or brew. All you bases covered.

          Be interested in your thoughts on Ultra DB-2 burrs for light and medium/light espresso if you feel inclined to try them for that. I know they are promoted as being for pour over but can't help but wondering how they would go for light roast espresso. Might save me unboxing them!

        • Bames
          Bames commented
          Editing a comment
          Great write ups so far. Very keen to hear how you with the Ultra burrs because I was told by SSP and Weber that they’re the SSP 80mm HU burr with I’ve just put in my 804 to replace the lab sweet burrs in the hunt for more clarity. I’m using for espresso mainly at the moment with some pour over / aeropress

      • #9
        tompoland, there is a great post online about pulling low fines espresso shots with the EG1 (he is also using DE1 machine) as i cant link to it here, i can PM you the info if you are interested, though id say you will have seen it for sure

        Comment


        • tompoland
          tompoland commented
          Editing a comment
          Tx. I may have seen it but probably forgotten it so link would be great tx.

      • #10
        today i decided to swap the burrs out. This is where you really appreciate where your money is going to for this grinder. It truly is a work of art, and the task of removing, putting in the new burrs and aligning took no more then 20 minutes.

        The only tool required is 1 allen key and the rest is pins and magnets.

        The other thing i will say, there was bugger all grind coffee to be cleaned out. Very low retention indeed.

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        • #11
          now time to install the new burrs.

          You will notice the low fines have a top and bottom marked on the burrs, where the medium fines burrs do not, so if doing this, be sure to get them around the correct way.

          I will give the burrs some time for seasoning before commenting and doing comparisons with the P100 again on pour over results

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          • #12
            Following with great interest thanks John. How did you find it when aligning the new burrs?

            Comment


            • JohnA
              JohnA commented
              Editing a comment
              i did it a couple of times just to be sure, but it is very easy, just remember when you find the 0 point, to back it off a little, align, then tighten up the bolts, as if you dont back it off, once you tighten up the bolts it will not move and you wont be able to adjust to a coarser setting. That is the only little trick

          • #13
            Nice! Jonathan Gagne did a post on seasoning these, and said he measured changes right up to 25lbs (13ish kgs). Also read from another user on another forum that he experienced increasing consistency right up to 30kgs so hope you can get your hands on some old coffee!

            I have put about 10kg through the SSP HUs in my 804 (same as the Ultras but with screw holes) and have noticed some improvement so far... but still a way to go.

            Comment


            • JohnA
              JohnA commented
              Editing a comment
              unfortunately i dont have lots of old coffee to season them, may go grab a whole stack of cheap beans to run through it, or just enjoy the journey whilst they are seasoning with my morning pour overs

              I have read his post and many others of his and find them always a great read.

          • #14
            I have had some success going to a roasters and asking if they have any old beans or buggered roasts and asking if I can buy them, it has been cheaper than grocery store beans, so could give that a go. I’d also recommend buying some of their good beans too as they’ll be more likely to help you out!

            I’ve found these burrs much cleaner than the Ditting lab sweets I was using before. But they are trickier to dial in with a smaller sweet spot and less forgiving. But the clarity in light roasts is definitely there. I couldn’t do side by side though. Only really used for spro so far. Did 1 filter but it ran too quick and was a bit empty. I’ll give more reports as I keep getting used to them

            Comment


            • #15
              Thanks for sharing this information. Very interesting.
              Out of curiosity, what brewer are you using for pourover? V60/Kono/Tricolate?
              What sort of light roast do you enjoy? Any particular bean/region and roaster?

              I find it gives a bit more context and allows one to relate. For instance, if I want to accentuate aroma and acidity in a Kenyan, I will choose the Kono dripper.
              The difference between the Ultra burrs and the P100 in such a scenario will be very interesting as there are few such comparisons out there.

              Comment


              • Bosco_Lever
                Bosco_Lever commented
                Editing a comment
                CleanFinish I agree with your analysis of the V60. Technique and recipes are paramount. The KONO I found very easy to get good results right from the start. Also it allows 12-13g brews allowing me to enjoy more than one cup a day. If one only has a small sample to play with, the KONO is very handy. I may be wrong, but I find it quite versatile as well. Interested in the other methods you describe, please elaborate when you have a chance.
                Strangely, I find the Tricolate very easy to use and get consistent good results as long as I use at least 18-20g of coffee. Scott Rao and LH have posted a few mods which work really well. I get very little or nil astringency with it, but find aromatics are lower than say a brew from a KONO. I experimented a lot with my HG-1 and the Tricolate and got good results. With the Gevi, some adjustments needed to be made. Still early days, but I believe that grinders that produce more fines, pair well with the Tricolate and need a gentler swirl method. It is all about fine tuning the result to suit your tastes and level of patience.
                For brewed coffee I prefer no roast taint so this should translate to light to med-light. Light is probably TW/Luca style with high aromatics and med-light a touch darker with zero or negligible roast notes.
                Flavour descriptions like fruity can be interpreted as bin juice ferment by some or a delectable medley of tropical fruits by others.
                I prefer clean washed coffees, but have had numerous delicious naturals, honey processed, anaerobics etc to shy away from them. Each good coffee deserves a try, in my opinion.
                Have yet to enjoy a good batch brew without astringency.

              • CleanFinish
                CleanFinish commented
                Editing a comment
                Bosco_Lever - given you're quoting TW/Luca style and from your description i think we're very aligned. I prefer clean washed but enjoy naturals too. The new heavy fermented, rum/oak, anaerobics etc not my cup.

                My very minimal experience of Tricole is from level3ninja and likewise found aromatics lower. I agree like you say, with time we could probably improve it. Your 'gentle swirl' method is something i've been playing around with but with Clever instead or Cupping or Aeropress. Ultimately, instead of high agitation, these methods with gentle swirl, is becoming more of a steep with tiny bit of drawn down vs v60 which is heavy drawn down influenced. It's definitely more show me what's there in the roast/green vs how a barista can emphasise specific qualities of roast - including reducing/removing e.g. undesirable roast tones or astringency. The question I've been contemplating is are these kind of cups too accurate/analytical and thus boring? vs v60. I don't know. I've not had v60 that impressed me but have many friends I respect that swear by magical v60 cups.

                To your point around grinder influencing how you brew, that is something I've been experimenting a lot lately. Using 64mm SSP MP and 98mm ULF, I've had to significantly adjust my brew to compensate. My usual recipe which i can dial up/down easily do not apply here. These burrs are way more fast extracting, and their uniformity means adjust grind like other burrs, may not have the same effect. So I've had to change my ratio or remove any agitation to reduce over extraction. My usual small grind size adjustment or shorter brew is still giving me over extracted cups or with coarser grinds, under extracted.

                As for batch brew....I lived in the US prior to coming returning to oz last year and over there, it's hard to get bad batch brew. It's what they mostly drink. Oz is the opposite, getting not bad batch is a challenge. The best I've had so far been Artificer in Sydney. I wouldn't say it's exceptional but if people not had much batch brew, I would say their is the best I've found in Sydney so far.

                Good to meet you bosco_lever...you maybe the very small handful of folks I've met that drinks lighter, enjoys TW and brew vs dark espresso or big milk cups which is what many oz folks enjoy.

              • Bosco_Lever
                Bosco_Lever commented
                Editing a comment
                CleanFinish Nice to meet you to. I agree with the agitation method you describe. The Gevi seems to be high uniformity, so I have also reduced agitation. I will experiment with the Switch next.
                I roast my own coffee, but do try other light roasts to compare. I really enjoy geishas and pink bourbons, along with good Kenyans, but these are hard to find as a well roasted product, so I experiment at home. It is challenging to get them right.

                I also enjoy Medium roasted coffee as espresso. Some roast notes are acceptable (no ash) in this type of brew for me, and I love the result from my levers. Finding that happy "medium" has been a long journey.
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