DF83? Will it come to Aus

[JohnA]

so today i did another little taste test, first one i did was with my wife, all 3 coffees were long blacks, she didnt know which grinder was used for each one.
Her preference were

1: P100
2: Key
3: DF83,

Stating DF83 had too much bitterness for her, P100 best flavour profile.

Today i used a single origin Nyagashia BURUNDI washed process

My thoughts,

P100 was a flavour explosion, but a little too bright for my liking (others may love this)
DF83, was a well balanced cup with good body
Key was also a great well balanced cup but a little thinner then the DF83

Of course i knew which grinder was used, and as much as i would have loved to say i preferred it a certain way, if i was given these 3 in a coffee shop

I would have taken either the Key or the DF83 as my preferred flavour profile.

As lattes though, depending on the bean i have been using, i prefer either the P100 or the Key

I have said this before, the DF83 is great value for money and for its price point is very hard to beat.

I had to do 2 doses on the DF83 as the first dose stole .4 but the second dose spat it out to give me 20.4 so just spooned out the .4 gram
all 3 used the same profile on the YOU
and all 3 were 20g in and 40g out in around 28-32 seconds

[Rockford]

Can confirm. It takes a few pumps and you can feel the pressure, then a lump comes out and you can feel the change in the bellows (aka all clear), but by then you've blown a good lot of it all over the bench. I think it has more to do with how it piles up very high and then you are blowing straight onto it. (I am using a portafilter directly on the grinder via the rubber stabiliser grommet that comes with it)

[Phillydelphia]

thanks for sharing the updates and experiences guys. this is super interesting to see how they compare, given both your respective experiences with grinders at very different price points.

[Phillydelphia]

im sure its been posted before but curious why darker roasts will be better as part of the seasoning process. Does the fineness at which you do this matter at all? i assume that a finer setting makes the blades work a little bit harder, ensuring a better outcome as a result?

[tompoland]

And I get that. 100%. I had that with the Pharos which some people rave about. Horses for courses. That level of retention sounds about right. I guess if I am going to live with it, I would want to push three or four beans through first just to flush it out.

Then again, if it is say 0.3g retention, in an 18g grind that's only 1.67% of the total grinds. I wonder how much that would effect flavor? Probably not much but I guess I can try it out.

[JohnA]

unfortunately i cant get on with it, i have only been single dosing and every dose has seen a retention of around .3 - .4 grams, its only when i go over to filter that the extra comes out.

[tompoland]

JohnA


Sure, it aint' no P100 and the DF64 ain't no P64. Maybe put it alongside a $99 sunbeam ceramic?

I have only just seasoned mine.

I have concerns about the retention but it would be hasty to arrive at a conclusion on that given that I was chucking 4kg down it's throat almost continuously.

Other than that, I'm impressed enough to test it with various burr sets. A lot of people are pretty happy with the DF83 (pre AU/NZ versions) but that was at the price of around $1,000. The new price and the arrival of the Niche means it's comparitive value equation just changed almost overnight.

Jury is still out for me. i suspect that I'll keep it and use it as the basis for side by side burr comparisions with the Duo when it arrived.

In short, I'm still impressed enough with it and once I (finally) get around to pulling some shots with it (next weekend?), that will be the test.

[tompoland]

Make the a 2nd vote for the Varia VS3. I have been using one daily with the Hypernova Ultra burrs and just bought a second one to run some side by side comparisions with the Hypernova burrs. Don't think I'll notice a different. It's super great little grinder and the burr set really delivers flavor. I'm so impressed that if that God took all of my other grinders away tomorrow, I'd still be quite content with the Varia. It's a little surpise package.

[JavaB]

JohnA

i have been spoilt

I'm jealous as I'd dearly love to own a P100 or a Weber EG1 (or the like) but sadly my budget won't stretch to that.

I'm using a LM GS3MP and I can just imagine if I tried to compare that to a Rancilio Silvia (a great machine I owned some years ago now) the result is predictable - but the GS is in a different league.

I have been VERY impressed by the Varia VS3 when it comes to quality of construction, noise level, workflow, zero retention and it produces a good cup as well!

Once you have had the best, the rest will always be second rate.

[Solrak]

That's gonna get awful crowded on the coffee bench Tompoland when the Niche 83 and Timemore 78s turn up for a bit of bump & grind. Flat burr face off!

[JohnA]

JavaB i actualy expect the P64 to be similar in performance (user wise) as the P100. In saying that, i mean, quiet, no weird vibrations, neat workflow, very little retention. Id also expect fit and finish to be on par with the P100

But of course i didnt expect the DF83 to be finished to the same high quality as the P100 or other high end grinders, and to be fair, i thought the finish was actually very good, just in operation is where i am let down.
Maybe if i didnt have anything to compare it with, may have been different, but alas, i have been spoilt

[JavaB]

JohnA

Did you really expect a "budget" grinder (DF83 $1,600 here or $1000 direct) to perform anything like a P100 ($4,600)? There is a massive price difference and I'd expect that to be reflected in the performance (not always the case but as a general rule)

I'd expect the P64 to also be less than the P100 performance wise - even if closer to it.

[JohnA]

well, i think this may be the grinder ive kept for the shortest period of time.
Using it side by side with the P100, i just dont want t use it to be perfectly honest.

The P100 is so quiet and faster even at speed setting 3, and virtually 0 retention without having t use bellows or making mess everywhere, or enduring the noise and vibrations.

I'll do a few taste comparison tests tomorrow between all 3 grinders then put it on the market and patiently wait for my P64 with mizen burrs to arrive

[tompoland]

That makes sense JB. Seems with the DFs there is a good sized gap/shelf around the burrs and grinds get caught there. Perhaps the slimmer DF64V has addressed that.

[JavaB]

tompoland
I guess that's one issue with flat burrs in a horizontal plane. Grinds have to make their way out of the burr with only the rotation of the burr to make them climb up the burr and exit. Gravity is trying to pull down the grinds and hold them there. I remember the DRM left lots of grinds in the burrs and even more in the doser.

With flat burrs in the vertical plane (like the Timemore) gravity is assisting the grains to full down and out of the chamber.

Conical burrs have a clear advantage here as the grinds have a clear path downwards out of the burrs with little room to hide.

A Niche Duo will never be anywhere near as good as a Niche One at low retention.... but as the taste profile is an issue....

The Duo130w motor is scary. The Timemore 64s has a 180W motor and that stalls unless you are running it at high speed.... so 130W and 83mm burrs doesn't compute.