Well - had the Niche and my Rocky together for a week (until I gifted Rocky to middle daughter) and formed various thoughts about the NZ. In no particular order:
* Lovely work flow once everything's sorted.
* Showed flaws in my technique more so than the rocky
* Cleaned it - must've been up to 0.5 gm in old coffee there; but way, way easier to clean and zero than the Rocky... no comparison, really
* Zero ring moved around a lot because of my fat fingers. Found I was constantly re-zeroing until I discovered the trick of, once zeroed, using a bit of tape on zero ring and dial adjustment ring to keep them in synch
* It has initially hard to dial in as going to 15 or 20 was too coarse. Lost quite a bit of coffee going higher because I though I was grinding too fine (lots of spurts from naked portafilter). Then went to 10 (apparently espresso default) and much better result - finally, with my dark roast, discovered 7 was the setting. Dialling in a roast still makes me break out in a slight sweat.
* Lots of body on my dark roast, but not sure if I could tell the difference between the NZ and Rocky on dark roast
* On a lighter roast, far more clarity than the rocky
My normal workflow is to place the portafilter upside down on the dosing cup and swing them around. This has worked OK with my no-name dosing cup and rocky. However, with the NZ dosing cup:
* LOTS of static on the Niche dosing cup. A spritz of water is your friend.
* Niche dosing cup, unlike my no-name rocky one, sometimes retain grinds. Have to pound the bottom in this instance.
* If you don't wiggle and jiggle the cup and portafilter, you may find a little mountain of coffee in one quadrant of the portafilter when lifting the dosing cup. it is akin to a martial art to then put a dosing funnel on and WDT.
In summary: a better grinder than my rocky, particularly in terms of cleaning and work flow, but not sure if it's twice as good at twice the price. Put into perspective the law of diminishing returns with respect to grinders. Also, made me reconsider if I want to go to a Lagom P64 (in the future). I began to ask questions like 'what do I REALLY want from a grinder?' and the realisation that, no matter how much you pay for a grinder, no magic genie is going to appear and make you brilliant coffee.
No matter how much you polish it. :-)
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Coffee Tech DF83 Vs Niche Zero (Vs Lagom P64?!) - Which One?
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Any updates? Happy with your choice of the Niche?Originally posted by BanjoPaterson View PostFirst - thanks to everyone who chipped in. You all gave me great food for thought. The crux is that I'm exceptionally partial to the Lagom P64 for all the reasons I originally mentioned, but I just can't justify (at this stage) buying a grinder worth that much. The answer, I think, is in the reason I want to change; which is first and foremost work flow. I want to be able to individually dose and swap beans.
I think if I had something like a Decent DE1 - or Slayer - or Linear Mini ... an espresso machine at the real pointy end of the diminishing returns, then it'd make sense to have a complementary grinder. But I'm a 2 to 3 a day espresso mug with a Silvia. I suspect my best bet is the Niche Zero. I do have concerns about plastic-on-plastic gearing coming from expensive repairs elsewhere, but in the context of grinding for a coffee I think the Niche will last at least as I long as I'm functional; and probably will be handed to my children when I'm pushing up coffee bushes.
So I will be putting in an order to Niche next week as the least-cost solution to my actual problem, which is work flow.
Again, thanks to everyone for letting me go through a thought process that has been quite muddled of late, but which now seems a lot clearer. I was correct. The Coffee Snobs Brains' Trust is a potent force. Cheers.
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BanjoPaterson you will find that a newer grinder and some of the new burr sets will enable you to branch out as you did with whiskey.
To experience more flavours in your coffee, a change to a slightly lighter roast level will help. To me a dark roast is one where there is oil on the outside of the bean. As you reduce the roast development time of a coffee there is a sweet spot where acidity, body, sweetness etc is balanced. It all depends on the skill of the roaster. At this level you can enjoy the attributes of the coffee. Some have high body, others have lots of acidity and associated fruit flavours. There is a huge range to explore just like wine.
Choose a grinder that is easy to use and clean, and explore the variety of coffee that we are lucky to have. The Rocky can be sold or gifted. It also works well as a decaf grinder.
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Lyrebird if I may be so bold, what's your grinder?
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First - thanks to everyone who chipped in. You all gave me great food for thought. The crux is that I'm exceptionally partial to the Lagom P64 for all the reasons I originally mentioned, but I just can't justify (at this stage) buying a grinder worth that much. The answer, I think, is in the reason I want to change; which is first and foremost work flow. I want to be able to individually dose and swap beans.
I think if I had something like a Decent DE1 - or Slayer - or Linear Mini ... an espresso machine at the real pointy end of the diminishing returns, then it'd make sense to have a complementary grinder. But I'm a 2 to 3 a day espresso mug with a Silvia. I suspect my best bet is the Niche Zero. I do have concerns about plastic-on-plastic gearing coming from expensive repairs elsewhere, but in the context of grinding for a coffee I think the Niche will last at least as I long as I'm functional; and probably will be handed to my children when I'm pushing up coffee bushes.
So I will be putting in an order to Niche next week as the least-cost solution to my actual problem, which is work flow.
Again, thanks to everyone for letting me go through a thought process that has been quite muddled of late, but which now seems a lot clearer. I was correct. The Coffee Snobs Brains' Trust is a potent force. Cheers.Last edited by BanjoPaterson; 19 November 2022, 09:11 AM.
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That was the video I watched and the gears are shown at timestamp 10:00. He says that he thinks they're well built and someone else mentions that he thinks the gears are delrin plastic, which I've no concerns about (I replaced the Fischer-Price reduction gears in my M3's throttle actuator with delrin ones). It's difficult to tell and, to be fair, I've not seen into any other gearings except (on this site) the Lagom Mini which changed a brass gear to steel to prevent the threading -- so sometimes metal may not be all it's cracked up to be.Last edited by BanjoPaterson; 19 November 2022, 08:33 AM. Reason: Edited because I can't spell the first time
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Very true. I don't roast my coffee, but I buy from one coffee roaster (as I have done for the last half decade). He usually sends the coffee to me on within a day or (max) two of roasting, so when it arrives it's about 3-4 days old and ready to sit for a few more days. The kilo I buy then (usually) lasts between 18-22 days. I re-order when I'm getting down to the last quarter of the bag. Twice this year I've mussed up my timing, and that's meant a trip to somewhere else for 250gm.
For the last half decade it's been one particular roast (a dark PNG) - I am a creature of great habit. But, getting rebellious in my advancing years, I just want to be able to branch out. It's like when I began enjoying whisky it was with the peaty Lagavulin 16yo, but soon I branched out to the Speysides etc. Lagavulin still is my safe space whisky as much as this PNG dark roast is my safe space bean, but I want to explore and I think a new grinder will enable that better than my ol' trusty Rocky -- which has well sufficed until now.
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Every chain has a weakest link.
Greens quality -> roasting -> freshness -> grinding -> puck prep -> machine.
For me, at the moment, it's a toss up between my roasting and my grinder as to which is the pinch point. Probably my roasting.
Thanks, Bosco, for your help with the first and fifth elements of the chain.
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Hi Banjo, not sure if you’ve seen ‘The Wired Gourmet’ review and tear down of the Niche on YouTube? Goes into great detail and worth a watch if you have concerns about the plastic parts or build quality of the Niche. Good luck with your search.
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Sometimes when you have a hammer, you strip down to your underwear and hammer away.Last edited by Bosco_Lever; 18 November 2022, 08:30 PM.
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Bosco I am not sure your read the OPs reason for changing correctly, it seems to be more about the ability to change coffee frequently and easily.Originally posted by Bosco_Lever View PostInteresting how everyone talks about upgrading their grinder and machine so that what is in the cup, improves.
Originally posted by BanjoPaterson View PostWhy The Rocky Isn't Working: You can measure single doses in a Rocky, provided you slap it on the side frequently, but it's not made for that (either the single dose or abuse). I'm now trying differing coffees and I'd like a grinder where I can chop-and-change beans.
Sometimes when you have a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
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Sometimes the search for perfection does not factor in the law of diminishing returns.Last edited by Bosco_Lever; 18 November 2022, 08:25 PM.
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