breadmaker cutting out

[A_M]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

See post 9

Sorry for the delay but I took some photos of my Breville BB400 "Naked Ghetto Corretto" last night to show where the two sensors/thermostats are and what they look like, most BMs would have something similar I am sure.

Your 100% correct...  See my comments in reply 14...

1: Thermal fuse is just that...  Pop and open cct   Common value is 184C  I have about 5 in my kit...

Common fault in all the Sandwich makers etc...

2: The other sensor is a bead type and is the temp sensor  and usually feeds into the cct  for a temp display (sometimes they have a fudge value as the actual temp could be higher, as they can not place / embed in the basket / bin / product) and to also feed the temp control cct.  In an high end system there can be more than one.

[sdg]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Theres another possibility; the motor itself may have a built in thermal cutout.
It happened to me today just as I was about to stop the second of two back to back roasts.
Once the motor was cooled it was OK again.

Its not just the motor getting hot that may be the problem. I left all my  roasting gear sitting in the sun on Tuesday while I dithered over which bean to roast next, and by the time I got round to the roasting the DMM was too hot to use (apparently they have an internal sensor for calibration, and the poor thing was reading over 50*C!).

And then the BM (Breville BB350) wouldnt go! Err 01, it says.

Ring Breville. Turns out theres a "too hot for yeast" sensor (I kid you not) which prevents any misguided attempt to make bread if the machine is over 40*C :-/

At this point I decided to give up, on the assumption that the next thing to do a heat-related dummy-spit would be the heat gun, and that would  be bad

[A_M]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

What Mal said and some...

While Sensors are there to detect the Temp / Pressure / Air flow etc etc They are usually not required to carry any Voltage or Current...

While a thermal fuse (depending on rating and use) for heating can often be in series with the wiring that is driving the heater... Thus due to the heat and the current that are also often crimped to the wiring... Other wise standard solder just melts.

They often have an insulating sleeve of fibreglass cloth, but this is not always so. The insulation is for isolation from the metal as it can be LIVE...

Faults: They blow... For many reasons and not just OT.

Intermittent: These are a pain and usually found to be caused by a bad crimp connection..

Outcome: I replace and often have to use small (size depends on current rating) blind screw terminals for the connection on each end... DO NOT ever use the Open type as I have seen live wires poking through and cause big problems...

As Mal, myself and others have stated before:

If you are not sure about any of this, leave it for a qualified person to do for you. 240V AC can and does KILL, regulalry....

Problem is that 240Ac is not 240AC but in fact an RMS value... The true Peak to Peak is 680V and that might remind EVERY one to take care...

[Dimal]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Absolutely correct Greg....

Thermal Sensors tend to have a metallic connection/contact casing in order to efficiently conduct the heat from the surface being measured to the sensing device contained within the casing. This outer casing can be button shaped, cylindrical, spade shaped and I guess many others. The one thing in common is that they will have an exposed metal outer casing where it is fixed/clamped to the panel surface rather than an insulating sleeve of fibreglass cloth.
If you spot something like this attached to the Bin panelling somewhere that has a couple of wires protruding from it, this is most likely the troublesome sensor. As has been stated above though..... If you are not sure about any of this, leave it for a qualified person to do for you. 240V AC can and does KILL, regulalry....

Mal.

[gregpullman]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Hope this doesnt burst any bubbles but that may not be the problem. I had exactly the same problem in my Black and Decker BM and found that temperature sensor looking much the same as Ausdbs picture. However this is simply a thermal fuse, not a temperature sensor. I moved it away but still had the same problem. My BM bucket didnt have any other temp sensors that I could find.

I guess it depends on the design of the BM. Its worth a try of course, but just because youve found a thermal fuse dont automatically presume its the temperature sensor. A thermal fuse is a last line of defence against a fire - if all else fails and the unit gets too hot the fuse will blow and kill all power. Hottops have the same thing, and I suspect other well designed appliances that involve high levels of heat.

Greg

[Coughy]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

I have a sunbeam SBM201 which used to have the exact same problem. I opened it up and removed the exact same wire/snesor as shown in the pic above for the breville (they look so similar internaly they are prob the same basic unit, same motor same placing, same sensor).
Unscrewed the control panel and the shiny metal plate between the panel and the tin, removed bracket/mounting screw for sensor (a bit tight and fiddly) and taped it under where the panel is and above the motor so it doesnt get caught.
Fixed cutout problem ever since. Also I use a fan which blows air through the vent holes in the control panel side to keep that cool.

[Thundergod]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Theres another possibility; the motor itself may have a built in thermal cutout.
It happened to me today just as I was about to stop the second of two back to back roasts.
Once the motor was cooled it was OK again.

Trouble was I needed a third roast so had to go back to the old bowl and without my thermo probe.

Id heard of this kind of thing happening but it has never happened to my corretto before.

Might be time for some extra modifications to keep the motor cool.

[ausdb]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Sorry for the delay but I took some photos of my Breville BB400 "Naked Ghetto Corretto" last night to show where the two sensors/thermostats are and what they look like, most BMs would have something similar I am sure.

OBLIGATORY SAFETY WARNING Make sure your BM is turned off and unplugged before delving into its innards and if you dont understand any of this then get somebody who does to help!

The safety cutout thermostat/thermal fuse (where pencil is poinitng) has fairly large wires as the power supply to the breadmaker runs through the device and is designed to cut out the mains power to the machine if it overheats and cannot shut off.  I suspect that this thermostat/fuse is of the one time blow type so once it trips or opens it would have to be replaced.  If you unplug this and measure the resistance with a multimeter it will have a low resistance of only a couple of Ohms.



It plugs into the board and is actually marked "fuse" on the Brevilles pcb.



When removed from its mounting on the side of the casing it looks something like this.



The temperature sensor is the one that controls temperature when baking (I think) and also is the one that will bring up any error codes.  It has smaller wires and if you unplug it and measure the resistance of it with a multimeter wil probably give a reading somewhere in the KiloOhms range.  On the Breville this sensor is plugged into the back of the control panel and is attached to the side of the basket with a little nut and bolt, sorry no speccy pencil pointer here but it is the two wires with the inline plug going into the side of the casing above the motor.



When removed from the side of the casing it looks something like this.

[bigmomma]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

I tried the BM without that piece of wire. It still cut out before SC. Now back to the garage to strip the BM again.

[eves]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

I would love a picture, my BM failed on me whilst I was roasting some Monsoon Malabar, not happy! >

[ausdb]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

I have a Breville BB400 breadmaker and had similar issues when I tried to do a few roasts in quick succession, the machine stops working and comess up with an "Err h" on the display. To be honest I was being a bit unfair as I was roasting 10kg of beans as giveaways for my wedding

I disassembled the machine and found there was a temperature sensor and also a cutout thermostat in the unit. Both got unscrewed from the inner casing but left connected in circuit and there have been no issues since. I have also been running the breadmaker "naked" since then and it works well.

I can post some pcis if anyone thingks it will help

[bigmomma]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

I took the wire out. Plugged in the BM to make sure it works before i put the housing back on. I will roast some beans tomorrow see whether it fix the problem.

[Thundergod]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Agreed, dont remove it.
When I removed mine I got an error message on the display and the BM wouldnt work at all.

Just move it as far from its original position as you can.

[martybean]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

That will be it, but dont remove it, just move it away from the heat source.
Mal might be able to help you more if you post some pics.

[bigmomma]

Re: breadmaker cutting out

Thanks for the tip.
I opened it up today and tried to find that switch......not there. But there is a piece of wire near where the heating coil sit. I have taken that out....not sure it will fix the problem tho.