2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

[coffeebreath]

I will soon be in the market for a 2-3kg roaster and would love to hear some opinion/debate/advice about the pros and cons of different brands etc.

- Quality is more important than price tag (however the pocket isnt bottomless!!)

- also some thoughts re. electric vs gas powered would be interesting.

Thanks - Anthony

[luca]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Id just make the observation that a 2kg roaster or so makes for hard work if you intend to make money off the thing.

Cheers,

Luca

[coffeebreath]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Id just make the observation that a 2kg roaster or so makes for hard work if you intend to make money off the thing.

That surprises me Luca... I was budgeting for around 20 - 25kg per week, which (obviously) equates to 2-4 roasts per day - depending on either 2, 2.5 or 3 kilo roasting capacity.  That would seem managable to me....?

Cheers again - Anthony

[TC]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Hi Anthony,

I guess it depends whether youre looking at adding substantially to your cafe income stream or just doing it to cover your own needs.

You will need to keep in mind that you will lose about 15% in moisture from your greens and also that most roasters operate best at more like 75% capacity. A 3kg roaster therefore becomes a 1.8kg brown product outcome.

Many say that in a great cafe, you should be too busy to be able to roast, but many have proved that wrong. Hope youre not under brown contract though :

There are CS member Garanti, Toper and Diedrich owners. Some of the bigger blokes are using Giesen, Probat and Renegade as well...

There is plenty of silverware in Andys cupboard, all from his Garanti and a whole heap o nous... 8-)

I reckon this thread will ultimately become very interesting reading...

Good luck

2mcm

[luca]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Id just make the observation that a 2kg roaster or so makes for hard work if you intend to make money off the thing.

That surprises me Luca... I was budgeting for around 20 - 25kg per week, which (obviously) equates to 2-4 roasts per day - depending on either 2, 2.5 or 3 kilo roasting capacity.  That would seem managable to me....?

Cheers again - Anthony

Spreading your roasting out over every day seems uneconomical to me, when you have to put all of that energy into the roaster to bring it up to temperature.  In any case, would you rather do 15 roasts to get 25kg or 6?  If you halve your roasting time by getting a 5kg rather than a 2kg, thats extra time that you can put in to running your business, rather than needing to hire someone else to cover that time.  You are also using twice the number of roasts, which increases the chances for inconsistency - or so Im told by pro roasters.  Finally, roasting for yourself opens up the possibility of retail coffee sales and a 2kg roaster doesnt give you much room to grow.  If your consumption, including retail sales, shoots up to 50kg, you will be able to handle it much more easily with a 5kg roaster.  

Im sure that you can run a business off a 2kg roaster, but why do twice as much work as you need to?  Why increase the labour cost of your roasts compared with a 5kg roaster?  Surely the savings on the actual roasting equipment wouldnt justify it?

Just my $0.02,

Luca

[coffeebreath]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Hi guys and thanks for your replys - they got me thinking and I have a bit to say, questions to ask etc.
Unfortunately Ive had to evacuate my place due to the fires, so computer access has been limited and fleeting.
Ill reply again soon!
Cheers - Anthony

[cuppacoffee]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!


Some more to think about Anthony:

a) I agree with Luca in that you need to take into account that your time is valuable.
b) Energy isnt expensive. Using a 3kg Diedrich (3kg charge) a 9kg gas bottle will roast 100kg of beans and it doesnt take much electricity to turn a few pulleys and spin a fan. An afterburner, if you need one, is another matter. They are expensive to purchase and gobble up the juice at a huge rate! The bigger the roaster, the more likely it may be that you require one of these.
c) If you choose a larger roaster, unless you already have a stream of customers at the outset, be prepared to throw out quite a bit of coffee...particularly if you intend to offer SOs. As mentioned above, all roasters have an optimum charge and working above or below that can play havoc with your profiles.
d) Although Dudley works a lot harder these days than he did a year ago, he still hasnt reached anywhere near capacity. The flip side is that when he does, I will have past the time for the need of a bigger roaster.
e) Its true that twice the number of roasts may increase the chance of inconsistency. Roasting however, is not a game of chance, and I would suggest that inconsistency is more likely to do with lack of care and attention, rather than any shortcomings of the equipment.

You may get some more specific advice and info if you outline your plans - eg. roaster going in a cafe, warehouse, or double garage; already have a few customers, etc.

Good luck with everything - hope thats been of some help.

[coffeebreath]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

Hi guys,
Very interesting advice indeed.

most roasters operate best at more like 75% capacity. A 3kg roaster therefore becomes a 1.8kg brown product outcome.

Yeah 2MCM - Id thought of the 15-20% loss net weight, but not that - that makes for some thinking.

Many say that in a great cafe, you should be too busy to be able to roast

Yes and No I reckon

You may get some more specific advice and info if you outline your plans - eg. roaster going in a cafe, warehouse, or double garage; already have a few customers, etc.

Im not really keen on publishing my business plan for all and sundry, so excuse me if Im being oblique, but I do think that if you factor in and consider it a positive to be using some time in the cafe doing in house roasting the benefits to a business can be numerous.

There are CS member Garanti, Toper and Diedrich owners. Some of the bigger blokes are using Giesen, Probat and Renegade as well

Excuse my ignorance, but does that mean Garanti, Toper and Dierdrich are considered middle of the road and Giesen, Probat and Renegade are considered top shelf?

Spreading your roasting out over every day seems uneconomical to me, when you have to put all of that energy into the roaster to bring it up to temperature.In any case, would you rather do 15 roasts to get 25kg or 6?If you halve your roasting time by getting a 5kg rather than a 2kg, thats extra time that you can put in to running your business, rather than needing to hire someone else to cover that time.You are also using twice the number of roasts, which increases the chances for inconsistency - or so Im told by pro roasters.Finally, roasting for yourself opens up the possibility of retail coffee sales and a 2kg roaster doesnt give you much room to grow.If your consumption, including retail sales, shoots up to 50kg, you will be able to handle it much more easily with a 5kg roaster.

Cant disagree with that logic Luca. I must say the thought "why would I buy a a 2 - 3kg roaster when the difference in price between that and a 5kg machine is not that substantial" did cross my mind. And after some thinking, I do think that may be the more prudent way to go. I guess I have some fear about my ability to drive the freaking thing, so I was thinking baby steps... the step from home to comercial roasting is huge enough...I have been doing oodles of study, I have not unsubstantial notes/info from my home roasting experience/experiments and plan to engage a consultant to help as well  - so maybe...in for a penny in for a pound!

Its true that twice the number of roasts may increase the chance of inconsistency.Roasting however, is not a game of chance, and I would suggest that inconsistency is more likely to do with lack of care and attention, rather than any shortcomings of the equipment.

Glad to hear it Dennis, so that brings me tothis question: What brands should I be looking at and why? Is there a particular roaster that is good to cut ones teeth on?

Thanks - I do look forward to your thoughts and advice.
Anthony

[coffee_mogul]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

I started with a 3kg Diedrich to roast for our 2 Coffee Vans. I roasted about 30kgs per week over two mornings, while the vans were prepped.

The 3kg never missed a beat, or even came close to reaching its duty cycle.

I upgraded in size to a Turkish made Has Garanti 5kg unit, and it too never missed a beat.

Any true commercial roaster should be able to complete roasts back to back in 15-18mins.

As the others have pointed out, how long you spend on the roaster is relative to its capacity, and how much coffee you need to produce.

If time comes cheaply to you, then the 3kg is a great starting point, its capacity is about 9.6kgs an hour assuming 20 % loss and 15 min roast cycles. The question is, can your time be better spent elsewhere ?

For my current roaster, I have settled on a 7kg Diedrich based on the following observations.

1: I dont want to be an all conquering coffee company, Micro roaster is fine with me. To allow for any real growth the 3kg or 5kg are too small. As much as I love roasting, unfortunately there are other things that also need my time.

2: I never exceeded the duty cycle on my 2 previous, yet smaller roasters. I would need to be roasting lots of coffee to out grow the 7kg.

3: Afterburners just eat up gas, and I think smaller is better when trying to negate the need for one with local councils. If one is eventually required pn the 7kg, it would consume less gas than one for a bigger roaster.

To sum, I cant really fault any of the roasters I have used. The roasted coffee was consumed by many with plenty of compliments, and no one any the wiser as to which brand machine it was roasted on.
I will add the Turkish roasters arent finished to the same standard as the Diedrich roasters, you get what you pay for in that regard.

Both Has Garanti and Diedrich have Local authorised agents and support their customers well.

I hope this helps,

Wayne.

[coffeebreath]

Re: 2 - 3 kg "shop roaster" advice please!

I hope this helps,

Yep. It Does. Thanks
Anthony